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Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

theguardian.com

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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#131

Post by xaa »

venomsnake wrote: post #36
draugadrotten wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you think about their motives for adding such an exceptional warning.

Ball gripping fear?

Very likely. I heard an two-way interview on NPR with the editor of the Washington Post, another editor from a prominent UK paper (either the Observer or Guardian, can't remember and can't find the episode, but both are members of the same media group) and the anchor.

The editor of the Observer(?) and WaPo were duking it out because the editor of the Observer admitted that he and his staff were frankly terrified of reprisals, and that it was important to admit that publicly, especially if a paper makes the decision not to republish, and that appealing to "sensitivity" as a reason for not republishing the cartoons was a cop-out. The WaPo editor stood by the "sensitivity" excuses. I obviously completely agree with the former.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#132

Post by unclebucknasty »

Udik wrote: post #71

Yesterday the Guardian published the best opinion I've read so far about satire, Charlie Hebdo, the terrorist attacks and our reaction to them. And it's a short comic strip by the cartoonist Joe Sacco: http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/...

Poignant and thought-provoking. Thanks for posting.

The bit about Sinet reminded me of something that I just learned yesterday: that France has a law against denying the Holocaust.

The sentiment behind the law is understandable, but it is difficult not to see a double-standard at work. And, if Hebdo itself really is guilty of invoking that double-standard, then one does have to question the purpose of the "satire".

IMO a policy of good satire encourages the skewering of all ridiculousness, else, it risks becoming nothing more than hateful bigotry directed at a group, and (paraphrasing Sacco) there's really nothing clever or insightful about that. I don't personally know whether this is true of Hebdo, but Sacco seems to be making a thought-worthy point.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#133

Post by k-mcgrady »

rikacomet wrote: post #95

First of all.. certainly as a Muslim, I condemn the attack on Charlie Hebdo. This is not Islam. But, if I were to take the liberty to express my own opinion, I would say honestly, I think both parties were at wrong here. First that their have been many instances in the life of our prophet, when he faced not just harsh but inhuman treatment, specially in his hometown of Mecca. Yet he never lifted a finger or even wish…

>> "But the level of Satire in question here, was perhaps too much."

There are NO excuses for what happened. None. Just because a certain group of people (no matter who they are) believe something doesn't mean the rest of the world should not offend that belief because some people might not like it. It doesn't matter if that belief is Islam, Judaism, Scientology, or a belief in pigs that fly. I have the right to make fun of it, you have the right to make fun of my beliefs, and no amount of satire justifies violence. We can't live our lives trying not to offend because some people take their beliefs too seriously. I'm Catholic. There are plenty of people who think that's nuts and I understand that. I would never think of hurting them because of it and I would never try to justify anyone who did.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#134

Post by orf »

liveoneggs wrote: post #108
orf wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story of the Mormons is a lot easier to make fun of though, and they are drop in the ocean compared to Islam (the second biggest religion in the world). Even so would you put that play on in Salt Lake City? I doubt there would be massacres but I expect there would be some form of defacement or attempts at suppression by fundamentalists. And it's not just Islamic religion that would cause this, exactly what you de…

http://saltlakecity.broadway.com/shows/book-mormon-baa/

Woah, I stand corrected.

Edit: Although it hasn't opened yet, so what I said might well happen.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#135

Post by rikacomet »

trhway wrote: post #126
rikacomet wrote: post #95

First of all.. certainly as a Muslim, I condemn the attack on Charlie Hebdo. This is not Islam. But, if I were to take the liberty to express my own opinion, I would say honestly, I think both parties were at wrong here. First that their have been many instances in the life of our prophet, when he faced not just harsh but inhuman treatment, specially in his hometown of Mecca. Yet he never lifted a finger or even wish…

>First that their have been many instances in the life of our prophet, when he faced not just harsh but inhuman treatment, specially in his hometown of Mecca. Yet he never lifted an finger or even wished for those people to get hurt. It is against the moral of our religion to engage in such "eye for an eye" notions. that just a blatant lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr among the others fights against M…

If you read the content of that wiki yourself (Carefully), or watch the movie "The Message", you will find out yourself that you are wrong.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#136

Post by mercurial »

xcode_ wrote: post #115
jpgvm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Surely those faggots need to be condemned/punished/killed/whatever This is exactly what is wrong with people that hold your point of view. You privledge religion as something sacred and then go on to be homophobic and encourage the use of violence as a form of punishment. This is a common theme from people the defend religion and it's pedestal. If you want to claim that views are views you need to put everything on…

I think no religion preaches violence, including Islam. Its the followers that have their own interpretations.. Do we relate the acts of Hitler to Christianity?

Well, people get what they want to hear/read out of religion. Take the old testament, you have enough instances of God-sanctioned large-scale murder to justify most of anything. Some groups have taken inspiration from it, while others have had a completely pacifist outlook. No religion is exempt from that.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#137

Post by eternalban »

tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

Have you ever considered it is theatre? Have you ever considered that it may be directed at the minds of the non-Muslims?

I am a Muslim and frankly find these attempts at "satire" pathetic. Apparently those who find Islam a hair in their globalization ointment can't argue from a position of reason and have to resort to calumny and provocation.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#138

Post by damon_c »

tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

Warning: This article contains revelations about the deity known as "Santa Claus" which may be disturbing to those who maintain a belief in "Santa Claus" even into adulthood.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#139

Post by gunn »

JonnieCache wrote: post #73
gbog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred book is not conceivable. I don't think they can understand what religion and faith represent in the lives of Christian, Jews and Muslims. And unsurprisingly, religious wars have been quite marginal in this part of the world. One could also trace this important…

A very good point. I would argue that these cultures are simply expressing these religious instincts in ways that don't look like abrahamic religions, in the same way that football or rock music don't look like abrahamic religions either. Also, once you blur out the technical theological details, is Confucius not effectively treated as a prophet? (This is a genuine question.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven suggests some religious thinking

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#140

Post by jpgvm »

jordanpg wrote: post #117
neals wrote: post #7

I used to think society would, at some point, grow up and leave religion behind. But lately, it just feels like a far 'lower' form of religion is just taking over. I think that western christianity has made some big strides. For example, by leaving all the violence behind. Now the violent ones are winning. This makes me sad for the future of Europe.

Coverage of these events, with or without anti-Muslim sentiment, almost never takes the point of view that it is the fact that people are brought up to really believe that there are invisible, magic beings in the ether who care about the state of affairs on earth that is at least in part the root cause here. And that is a terrible shame because not drawing attention to that fact is a tacit endorsement of extremist be…

I wish Hitchens was still with us.

People should read his books - especially God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.

RIP, we miss your tact, witty jabs and awesome accent.

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