Yesterday the Guardian published the best opinion I've read so far about satire, Charlie Hebdo, the terrorist attacks and our reaction to them. And it's a short comic strip by the cartoonist Joe Sacco: http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/...
Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
71–80 of 489 posts
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
One could argue that he did, indirectly. Freedom of speech means exactly that - the freedom to say whatever you want, within the margins allowed by the law, regardless of how it could be perceived by some specific group of people. Somebody is always going to be offended, I think el-Hamdoon missed the whole point. What he could have said instead, but didn't, is this: "While I find the cover disgusting, freedom of spee…
"Within the margins of law" So it's not completely free. There is a hate speech law in France. So there are limits to speech and many people might find them acceptable limits.
Thank you for the excellent example of why hate speech laws are such a terrible idea.
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
The religious instinct hasn't gone from the secular western world, it's just been re-expressed in different more modern ways, variously consumerism, string theory, celebrity, and so on. I'm pretty sure personally that it's built into our biology. In the words of Charlie Brooker: "Imagine! Nothing to kill or die for! And no religion too! It's amazing, literally no one's ever had that thought before. Okay, so there's a…
I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred book is not conceivable. I don't think they can understand what religion and faith represent in the lives of Christian, Jews and Muslims. And unsurprisingly, religious wars have been quite marginal in this part of the world. One could also trace this important…
A very good point. I would argue that these cultures are simply expressing these religious instincts in ways that don't look like abrahamic religions, in the same way that football or rock music don't look like abrahamic religions either.
Also, once you blur out the technical theological details, is Confucius not effectively treated as a prophet? (This is a genuine question.)
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#74Speaking on Today, [Omer el-Hamdoon, president of the Muslim Association of Britain] said causing offence “just for the purpose of offending” was not freedom of speech. Distancing yourself from the extremists [FAIL]
I don't understand how anyone could claim that CH published those comics "just for the purpose of offending". All of the CH comics had messages, very valuable messages in my opinion.
And even if they were crafted to offend it is our choice to be or not to be offended.
A sane, mature person would just shrug and ignore the newspaper in the future.
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#75I'm nervous about the response that these attacks will conjure from the far right. There have already been a good deal of attempts on the lives of innocent Muslims [1] since the attack on Charlie Hebdo, and I find it very concerning that I have heard none of this from the national/international news media. Would these not as well be considered acts of terrorism? Why not report on them? Doing so would seem to unfairly advance the anti-Islam sentiment in France by effectively silencing the acts of terrorism from non-Muslims.
[1] http://mic.com/articles/108206/how-bad-is-france-s-anti-musl...
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#76The Charlie Hebdo attacks show that these days, real satire of Islam can't be done without significant risk of violent reprisal. If you doubt that statement, remember The Book of Mormon. (The play, not the actual book.) Could you imagine Trey Parker and Matt Stone making an equivalent Broadway play about Islam? Could you imagine them calling it The Qur'an to Google-bomb the original? Even if they disregarded their ow…
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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#77> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…
> I find such warnings an insult to my intelligence and a trivialization of people's personal responsibility
How so? If an article says "trigger warning: (rape/Mohammed/spiders/flashing lights)", then people who don't want to be exposed to those things (e.g. due to PTSD, religion, phobias, epilepsy - or simply because it upsets them and they don't particularly want to be upset right now) can choose not to read it.
How does it erode someone's personal responsibility to give them the information they need to make that choice?
> where is my warning?
If there's a largish number of people for whom "trigger warning: trigger warnings" would actually make life less stressful, then I'd endorse people including that warning.
I don't think that population is very large. For that matter, I don't think it includes you.
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#78> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…
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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
And it makes things worse. The idea that you have to tiptoe and thought police yourself around some group of people is sure way to antagonize part of the society against that group.
You do have to do that, at all times. It's called "being a functioning member of society" – and that means being considerate of other people's views and feelings, as ridiculous as they may be. Everybody does this, all of the time (well, maybe some people don't. Those people are usually dicks.) Remember The Guardian isn't a satirical magazine, but a newspaper. It doesn't have the defence against purposeful offence tha…
And how facts could be offensive or hurtful?
Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad
#80> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…
Oh, please don't take this to such a stupid extreme. Being a deliberate dick to people isn't something to be lauded; be respectful and thoughtful, even when you disagree.
I find "stupid extremes" in the realm of culture much easier to tolerate than those trying to control our behavior through violence. What you label "deliberate dick", most freedom loving people would label defiance.