I'm a bit confused how the interview came in at the end? Did the author use their project in a job application?
Probably? Do you think that's strange? Pretty standard if you ask me.
“Nothing you can do impresses me”
21–30 of 132 posts
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#22My main hiring qualification has been "Will this person continue to write code that will make me get up in the middle of the night?" or "Will this person contribute to me only working 40 hours and having no emergencies?". I try not to hire the former and hire the later. The culture thing in the second paragraph is bull. A bunch of clones is no fun at all and doesn't give the proper vision.
That being said, the "Nothing a newb can do impresses me, because I can find a hole in it.” is a bit overblown. Learning means that you are going to get comments. Some good, some bad. This isn't grade school and I don't remember anyone handing out gold stars. This is the same crap attitude that leads directly to ageism since experience is not valued.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#23The kernel of the argument in this post is hiring. The discussion about "coder culture"† is germane because it drives the gatekeeping function of in-group coders in hiring.
I don't have a problem with people discussing what is or isn't productive about how a stereotypical programmer behaves in groups.
But the real issue here is that the stereotypical programmer is given entirely too much authority in the hiring process; a ludicrous amount of authority once you see the alternatives available.
Only a tiny minority of tech companies hire against any kind of formal assessment rubric. A majority will make direct hire/fire decisions based entirely on face-to-face unscripted interviews --- no matter what kind of information has been collected in the hiring process, which is usually slipshod anyways.
If I'm right about why this person's argument is important, it's the hiring process that most urgently needs to change. Which suits me fine, because there's a lot more wrong with hiring in tech than bias.
† A concept I reject, but understand.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#24I'm used to this? I'll be leaving my job here in a few weeks for what I consider my dream gig. I expect to be criticized on nearly every project, because that makes me a better coder. I'm not sure if it's just adapting to the environment or if I actually like the general cynicism. A pat on the back is nice, but I strongly believe in the "this is always shit" mantra of software dev. There is always something that can…
When I feel like I'm doing good work, I'm a lot more productive, and I care more about doing things right vs just getting them done. Obviously constructive criticism needs to happen -- the author isn't disputing that. In fact, she says "it's been tough to get useful feedback" because people care more about cutting the other person down than actually evaluating the work. It's very easy to couch constructive criticism…
>I care more about doing things right vs just getting them done.
In an ideal world...
Justifying the statement "this is crap" with hard evidence as to why, and then congratulating the individual on what they might have done best is all you need to make good criticism. I don't see a need to get around the fact that their work is crap with flowery language.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#25If a candidate feels "about an inch tall" because of inane criticism, perhaps it is the candidate that needs to put things in perspective.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#26If a candidate feels "about an inch tall" because of inane criticism, perhaps it is the candidate that needs to put things in perspective.
Is criticism in a job interview "inane criticism"?
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#27There is that fear that you are always replaceable and your job will be outsourced. Because of that there is constant belittling and critique.
It all comes down to insecurity.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#28What’s the first thing that you as a senior developer would say to that person before seeing or testing their project? Let me guess — you’re thinking, “Is it responsive?” Does it reflect poorly on me if this sounds like a rather convoluted hypothetical? Then again, I'm not involved in web development, for what it's worth. Maybe there are people who actually think like this.
It sounded silly to me as well. I do work with web technologies, albeit in research and not industry. Maybe it's a web startup thing.
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#29When I first came to Silicon Valley, I had a couple of senior engineers as my mentors. The most important lesson I learned from them is that they were extremely supportive. I had a couple of ideas for new features, and instead of shooting them down and telling me why it wouldn't work, their responses were always "Hmmm, sounds interesting. Why don't you spend some time on it and let's see how it works out." When I did…
When I was a newbie engineer (ha!) I remember talking to senior engineers, and having a bit of trouble keeping up with the conversations. It didn't seem to flow right. I would try to agree or provide supporting/counter evidence and just couldn't keep tack of what direction we were heading.
Now, I realize they were just thoughtful. While I was rushing to a destination, they were feeling out the problem. They knew how to handle the middle stage where sides haven't been chosen yet and bias is still settling. At first I took the phrase "well, let's think about that for a moment" as a trigger, but I've caught myself saying it a lot. They weren't implying that I hadn't already thought about it, but rather their way of slowing down and smelling the roses, in a technical way.
And I can remember every time this led to a long discussion. Easily some of my favorite times working involved a senior engineer looking off and asking "well, let's take a closer look at this."
Re: “Nothing you can do impresses me”
#30What’s the first thing that you as a senior developer would say to that person before seeing or testing their project? Let me guess — you’re thinking, “Is it responsive?” Does it reflect poorly on me if this sounds like a rather convoluted hypothetical? Then again, I'm not involved in web development, for what it's worth. Maybe there are people who actually think like this.
It is slightly convoluted. The author also references a completed project with that being the first question, but if it ISN'T responsive, one could argue that it's not completed :P