Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers • Hacker News Board

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#21

Post by RK » Fri, Oct 16, 2009, 9:31 PM UTC

gcheong wrote: post #10

edw519 wrote: post #4

I know OP used "flipping burgers" as a metaphor, but for my brother and me, it's very real. We both worked at McDonald's in high school when it was difficult to get a job there and they ran a very tight ship. It was the hardest job either of us every had. We had to do everything: cook, clean, take care of every customer, make sure everything was in place and everything was properly scheduled. We had to smile the whol…

Reminds me of a quote I read from Charlie Munger: “I get flack for saying [when I visit a college and give a speech], “This is a nice college, but the really great educator is McDonald’s.” They hate me for saying this and think I’m a slimy creature. But McDonald’s hires people with bad work habits, trains them, and teaches them to come to work on time and have good work habits. I think a lot of what goes on there is…

I was at a McDonald's a while ago and they had a job ad that said something like 20% of the entire US workforce had been employed at McDonald's at one time. I found the number very hard to believe, but interesting if true.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#22

Post by incandenza » Fri, Oct 16, 2009, 9:39 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a piece of advice from Brian Fox ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fox ) which is that anyone who wants freedom should get enough jobs as waiters to be confident that you can do it at need. The reason is very simple. If you are in a strange place in desperate circumstances, an experienced waiter finds it fairly easy to get a job. And very importantly, you get to eat on your first day in the job.…

It's interesting that this also seems to have factored into Richard Stallman's philosophy. Since he considered working on closed software unethical, and noted that he could always survive as a waiter, he felt he couldn't justify working on closed software based on the excuse that it was necessary for financial reasons.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#23

Post by motoko » Fri, Oct 16, 2009, 9:50 PM UTC

lamby wrote: post #13

motoko wrote: post #11

I worked at McDonald's. It helped make me the man I am. Mark, have you also considered advice to burn estates? It is analogous from the under up as your flipping burgers is from the over down.

> I worked at McDonald's. It helped make me the man I am A lot of people say this. How can you be sure you are not just kidding yourself into thinking the time you spent doing something actually quite unproductive was useful?

If you were a man of titles and wealth from a family of the same, and you overheard a lean stranger say to a man of some skilled employ to you: "The best servants burned down estate once..." how would that make you feel?

...Especially, if you knew that was true?

Keep feeling; invert class.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#24

Post by nkassis » Fri, Oct 16, 2009, 9:52 PM UTC

shykes wrote: post #3

jasonlbaptiste wrote: post #2

I think the key take away of the article is this: Even if you're the "business guy", you should have some technical understanding of what's going on. It's a benefit for actually making strategic internal decisions or simple investor pitches. Sit in on tech discussions, learn the basics, or hell even take some simple CompSci courses at your local community college (basic theory). I know you're strapped for time, but i…

Another takeaway, maybe more relevant to the HN audience: if you're a technical founder, you need to get your hands dirty on financial modeling, customer development, and all the other non-tech stuff that "will ultimately owned by functional experts".

I credit my mom for making me take all business classes as electives. I wanted to do something like physics but she made a good point that if I wanted to run a business one day, I probably should know what Accounts Receivable means.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#25

Post by btilly » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 1:02 AM UTC

incandenza wrote: post #22

btilly wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a piece of advice from Brian Fox ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fox ) which is that anyone who wants freedom should get enough jobs as waiters to be confident that you can do it at need. The reason is very simple. If you are in a strange place in desperate circumstances, an experienced waiter finds it fairly easy to get a job. And very importantly, you get to eat on your first day in the job.…

It's interesting that this also seems to have factored into Richard Stallman's philosophy. Since he considered working on closed software unethical, and noted that he could always survive as a waiter, he felt he couldn't justify working on closed software based on the excuse that it was necessary for financial reasons.

This is unlikely to be coincidence. Among other things, Brian Fox was the first person ever hired by the FSF.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#26

Post by RevRal » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 1:24 AM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #4

I know OP used "flipping burgers" as a metaphor, but for my brother and me, it's very real. We both worked at McDonald's in high school when it was difficult to get a job there and they ran a very tight ship. It was the hardest job either of us every had. We had to do everything: cook, clean, take care of every customer, make sure everything was in place and everything was properly scheduled. We had to smile the whol…

I learned a good lesson too.

When I was a management trainee, my training manager abandoned me (physically left). I was two people short, meaning I was dealing with drive through (taking orders, filling orders, and taking money) and making the food. The dude at the fry station, it was his very first day. Oh, and it was lunch.

I made a mistake and the customer contacted the franchise owner about it. I'm guessing she yelled pretty loud because I lost my position, even after explaining what happened.

Actually, I don't know what the lesson was.... needless to say, I got out of there. I don't miss being a teenager.

The whole thing still bugs the hell out of me, like I somehow went up against three destructive forces and I still can't make sense of any of it.

Re: Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers

#27

Post by Mz » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 8:32 AM UTC

My ex worked at McDonald's and then later was career military. He once indicated they were much the same: In both cases, you have a uniform, photos of the chain of command are on the wall, and they work you like a dog. (Or something along those lines.)