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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#41

Post by Torgo »

robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo"

Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing these tragedies wouldn't happen if those people weren't so darn disrespectful of Muslims.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#42

Post by rimantas »

venomsnake wrote: post #18
ankurpatel wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what this is suppose to mean? I know there were attacks in Paris.

Well ... this is satirical magazine that puts offensive content on purpose (not pointlessly though) and they had their headquarters attacked and 10 personal killed (also 2 police officers). They were notorious for mocking all religions and have posted content offensive to all. Right now it is thought that this was the work on islamist terrorists (I have not seen reliable info though, and crazy is cross religion) Now…

Your use of the word "offensive" is offensive to me /s

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#43

Post by serve_yay »

robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

The #KillAllMuslims contingent is out if you care to have a look at that. https://twitter.com/roqchams/status/552833198036484098

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#44

Post by rimantas »

agumonkey wrote: post #26
venomsnake wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ... this is satirical magazine that puts offensive content on purpose (not pointlessly though) and they had their headquarters attacked and 10 personal killed (also 2 police officers). They were notorious for mocking all religions and have posted content offensive to all. Right now it is thought that this was the work on islamist terrorists (I have not seen reliable info though, and crazy is cross religion) Now…

Tiny detail, one of the cops that was killed on duty was a Muslim man named Ahmed. Hoping this will help avoiding the racist crowd to take advantage of the event too much.

Islam is a race as much as atheism is a race.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#46

Post by happyscrappy »

tokenadult wrote: post #40

Posted on my Facebook wall immediately. Thanks for sharing the link. Earlier today, I was searching for news stories about the shooting incident in Paris that would actually show the cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo to establish context for how cowardly and despicable the shooting was. Most English-language press outlets are not showing the cartoons. A comment on one news site pointed out that Spanish-language med…

The appropriate response is print blasphemous cartoons in every paper in the free world. Do they think they can kill everyone?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#47

Post by jmcomets »

aaronem wrote: post #29
daeken wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is freedom of speech best defended in the face of unreasonable people who have no limits to what they are prepared to do? By everyone continuing to utilize their freedom of speech. It's really that simple. The only way to lose is to not make use of your freedom.

Being murdered for what you say seems like, if not precisely losing, then being at least removed from the board.

Not expressing your freedom of speech in fear of being murdered is definitely what these terrorists want (note the term "terror"-ists).

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#48

Post by fennecfoxen »

daeken wrote: post #27
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

> How is freedom of speech best defended in the face of unreasonable people who have no limits to what they are prepared to do? By everyone continuing to utilize their freedom of speech. It's really that simple. The only way to lose is to not make use of your freedom.

Even aside from the blatantly unreasonable people, consider the reasonable people who don't think that you should have that freedom of speech. Demographic trends present in Europe today make eventual change in public policy on the matter an increasingly realistic prospect. This is one of the underlying reasons behind the European right's distress about rising influence of Muslims, and a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment and related intolerance.

It's kind of a new problem: how can a democratic, tolerant society defend both ideals (democracy, tolerance) under these circumstances? And at the same time it does echo back to old conflicts: once upon a time European, Christian states were facing increasing pressure from Arabic, Islamic ones... their solution involved crusades. :/

(No solutions to this problem are hereby offered or endorsed.)

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#49

Post by tomp »

petercooper wrote: post #4
robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

The FT already started with the latter: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/01/07/financial...

The Telegraph takes the opposite stance:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1133...

> "We must stop blaming ourselves for Islamist terror"

> It is tempting to think the Islamic fanaticism is purely a reaction to the West, but jihadists kill because that is what they do

> [...] Provocation is merely an excuse used by bullies to justify their actions, [...]

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#50

Post by agumonkey »

rimantas wrote: post #44
agumonkey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiny detail, one of the cops that was killed on duty was a Muslim man named Ahmed. Hoping this will help avoiding the racist crowd to take advantage of the event too much.

Islam is a race as much as atheism is a race.

Please don't misunderstand my comment, I'm saying this crowd will conflate the two.
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