31–40 of 192 posts
>>But the police union's phrasing—officers shouldn't make arrests "unless absolutely necessary"—begs the question: How many unnecessary arrests was the NYPD making before now?
If these minor offenses are not affecting crime then are they offenses whose only purpose is to generate revenue? If the city has not imploded then is that not sufficient evidence to get a discussion about the existence of these offenses?
There's two sides to the coin. My dad worked for NYC during the Dinkins administration, which took a stance of not antagonizing the population with minor tickets and citations. His big story about the downside of this approach was a major snowstorm, which crippled the city in many areas. In his case, he was stuck at work at a public housing project for 3 days with the residents, because the city didn't ticket parking…
This has still be case during some of the big snows of the past several years even with parking violations tickets.
> Broken elevators left the elderly trapped in high-rise buildings for days. People with medical emergencies had to be carried by fireman down the stairs and down the street to an ambulance on an avenue.
This still happens every once in a while. Police don't generally handle these kinds of things anyway, as the 311 service handles a lot of building code violations.
> One of the reasons for the current practice in NYC is the Mayor Giuliani did a complete 180 and aggressively enforced all sorts of laws. Chaos transitioned to order. The optimal answer lies somewhere in the middle.
This isn't accurate. Broken windows policing in NYC goes back to the mid-eighties and efforts to handle graffiti. Bill Bratton, the now police commissioner and comissioner during Guiliani's tenure, started using broken windows policing tactics and policies in the early 90s when he was at the NYC transit police.
Also, violent crime rates were already well in decline when broken windows policing became the major tactic and policy of the NYPD. It is not at all clear that broken windows policing is responsible or a contributed to that falling rate and to characterize Giuliani as instilling order on a chaotic city is laughable, as you could view many of his policies as instilling chaos.
As someone who fancies libertarianism but who's wary of its effectiveness in practice, I'm hoping we get to see this impromptu social experiment play out long enough to gather some useful statistics.
What's the connection to libertarianism?
I'm not sure we need strict laws regarding parking, public drinking, loosies, ect. Let alone aggressive enforcement.
I think parts of NYC are a good example of how enforcement can cause a more negative environment than the original activity.
I think this most recent trend in the police department has a huge potential to backfire. Perhaps this will highlight the fact that in the US, our lives have become over-criminalized and over-monitored by an increasingly growing police force and that we simply don't need so many officers and laws. This would be a good thing in America. However, I hate the fact that this change was brought about by the deaths of peopl…
It's all relative I guess. Here in the Nola we desperately, DESPERATELY need more cops.
I think this most recent trend in the police department has a huge potential to backfire. Perhaps this will highlight the fact that in the US, our lives have become over-criminalized and over-monitored by an increasingly growing police force and that we simply don't need so many officers and laws. This would be a good thing in America. However, I hate the fact that this change was brought about by the deaths of peopl…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's all relative I guess. Here in the Nola we desperately, DESPERATELY need more cops.
New Orleans has had quite a history of corruption in its police force. Are you sure?
Just lately we've had serious issues recruiting police (largely due to antiquated policies like 'no visible tattoos' or 'they must live in Jefferson Parish (expensive on a cop's salary)'. The murder rate (always a problem in Nola) is actually currently down but violent crime is up significantly and the nature of the crime seems to be getting more and more brazen (http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/11266753-123/buffa...). It's obviously a complicated issue that requires a lot more than just "more feet on the ground" but we certainly seem to not have enough at the moment.
Here's a link but there's probably a million more available via Google: http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/05/nopd_understaffi...
New York public employees cannot strike, so this is the labor action available to them. The union should think carefully though. If life just goes on without the nanny-state tickets and other revenue generators, the thought process may change. Maybe more fare jumping and double-parking would be ok, and we can live with that -- but with 10,000 fewer policemen. 10,000 * $100,000 = less need for ticket revenue.
I agree that this is not about the most serious infractions (though it should be noted that even arrests for violent crimes are down, just not so drastically). But we're not just talking about "nanny-state tickets" either. We're talking about plummeting arrests or tickets for robbery, fare-evasion, DWI, parking violations, and moving violations (speeding, running red lights, etc.), among other things. I don't see any…
Now we have perhaps something of a controlled experiment going on regarding the alleged root cause of the drop in crime in NYC (and perhaps nationwide).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the connection to libertarianism?
I mostly meant anti-regulation. I'm not sure we need strict laws regarding parking, public drinking, loosies, ect. Let alone aggressive enforcement. I think parts of NYC are a good example of how enforcement can cause a more negative environment than the original activity.
Of course, an even more libertarian approach would be to simply sell or lease the parking spaces to private entities and let them set whatever prices and rules they want for the use of their real estate, perhaps including making deals with local merchants to subsidize market rates during business hours.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's all relative I guess. Here in the Nola we desperately, DESPERATELY need more cops.
New Orleans has had quite a history of corruption in its police force. Are you sure?