How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#181

Post by jmccree » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

rifung wrote: post #23

heyheyhey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would just assume tipping would be similar to eating out in the US (10% for bad service, 15% norm, and 20%+ for good service) It's actually 15% for bad service and 20% for normal. Kinda strange that tipping has been inflated from the standard 10-15% the past decade or so.

How do you define what it "actually" is? The 10,15,20% is still what I hear. Perhaps it differs based off where you live in the US? I've lived in CA (both northern and southern) and the norm is generally accepted to be 15%.

I would say 18% is the standard tip as that is what most restaurants (in GA at least) will charge as "automatic gratuity" for parties of 6 or more. The math on 20% is easier so a lot of people default to 20%

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#182

Post by jasonwocky » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #171

rhino369 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want a waiter to come by because its rude to wave a waiter over. European service sucks.

Personally I loathe the intrusive cloying fake-friendliness of US waiters. I've had a few pretty poor[1] experiences despite not eating out that often in the US. I have eaten out in the UK considerably more often and had fewer poor experiences. maybe it's just a cultural thing?

How in the world do you know that the friendliness is fake?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#183

Post by acjohnson55 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

konstruktor wrote: post #173

acjohnson55 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

So it is okay to deprive generations of future servers of a guaranteed livable wage, just because the current one will be affected temporarily?

That's not the only alternative. And if your answer personally is not to tip, I think you have to ask yourself whether you're not tipping has made an impact on the policy, is is your action just hurting the poor sap who happened to serve you with no connection to a broader movement to spark change?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#184

Post by smackfu » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #19

monksy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's the norm and expectation. Theres a reason why the post tax total is the biggest number on the check. (Other than thats how much you owe)

Agree. It is the norm. All restaurants, the most common places to tip, do this too. If they calculate/print suggested tip amounts they use post tax and also if you trigger a gratuity included they use post tax. To be far, I think most people use post tax when calculating tip in their head too.

> If they calculate/print suggested tip amounts they use post tax

I see it done both ways.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#185

Post by acjohnson55 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

nickstefan12 wrote: post #110

mikeash wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you got scammed. How could he just change the amount for the ride? Isn't there a meter that's visible to both of you that shows what's due? If he insists that you have to pay more than what the meter says, tell him to get bent.

The meter said 100, but after I tried to manually enter a tip other than 20, is when I found out about it "actually being 150". He claimed that he had turned the meter off at one point and was actually doing me a favor he wouldn't have done if he had known I was going to barely tip him. I would have stood my ground (having to give turn by turn to your cab driver for 20 minutes is hardly tip worthy), but being in fron…

I feel ya on not keeping it real every single time, but sometimes, you gotta be like, look man, it's what I'm going to pay, or it's nothing, you choose.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#186

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#187

Post by vertex-four » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 1:58 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #60

bunderbunder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping in the USA goes something beyond just being culture. We've even got it ingrained into our laws. Minimum wage for servers is barely nominal, and much less than what anyone else in the restaurant is making. It's expected that customer tips will form the bulk of their earnings. So if you believe that people deserve to be paid a living wage for their time even when they're not at their best, the status quo places…

> the status quo places the onus to make sure that happens on you. The onus is on the employer, not on the employer's customer. Implementation varies by state: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm Some states have a higher minimum cash wage (before tips) than the $2.13 mandated by federal law. e.g. in California this is $9 per hour. In many places, the employer (restaurant) is responsible for topping up the employ…

Of course, there's no real protection against being fired for failing to make enough tips... and for those who make over minimum wage on tips right now, not tipping them amounts to them making less money.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#188

Post by jmccree » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:07 PM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #50

js2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face.…

I guess my struggle is internal then. I feel crappy about myself for being weak for tipping because I feel like I'm being scammed out of my own money via guilt given to me by their employer. And then I feel crappy if I don't tip.

You're not being scammed in the US. You're given the ability to give immediate feedback on the service you received by adjusting your tip amount.

What I don't understand is people saying they are "forced" to pay extra... Why would raising all the prices of the food 15-20% to make up for lost tips and actually forcing you pay that be better? Then you don't have the option to pay less if the service was bad.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#189

Post by rhino369 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:08 PM UTC

stevekemp wrote: post #176

rhino369 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want a waiter to come by because its rude to wave a waiter over. European service sucks.

No, most people probably want to eat their meal in peace and quiet. They don't need a waiter coming over every five minutes - specifically so that you'll remember that and equate it with "attentiveness" and "great service" when it comes to time to tip.

Next time you are out at a fine dining place, which tend to be very selective about hiring wait staff, see how they do it. That's really what people want.

I'm sure there is a large minority who just want to be left in peace and quiet, but you aren't the average customer.

A good waitress will know when to time her visits so she isn't always there but you don't notice her absence.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#190

Post by hudibras » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

dude_abides wrote: post #3

Some great tips here for budding data scientists: * Form a hypothesis before you start looking at data, else you're susceptible to post-rationalization. * When in doubt, have the raw data available to reconcile with aggregate data. * When publishing results, include your data sources, so that others can verify your findings.

(Since your comment appears to be the only one here about the article itself, I'll piggyback off it.)

This is a really great data analysis. The bottom-line conclusion of "cab drivers who are driving CMT programmed cars are making more money in tips" will definitely cause the Verifone drivers to say "Wait, what?"

The Businessweek article also shows the limitations of the so-called data journalism. The two reporters grabbed the data from the database, made some pretty graphs, got some quotes and called it a day. It took some readers revisiting the data to tease out the real insights.

But that's a bit unfair to the Businessweek guys. They're on a deadline and won't get paid extra for geeking out on the data too much, so their goal is to get the initial news out there to the world. Ben Wellington's interest wouldn't have been piqued if the article hadn't been written in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a win all around.