How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#71

Post by comrh » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:10 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #62

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

Is minimum wage a living wage? $7.25 * 44 hours per week * 51 weeks per year is still only 15,950 US$ That's gross, not net. I'm not convinced that people would pay extra even if they didn't have to tip to a company that paid a living wage but charged more.

> I'm not convinced that people would pay extra even if they didn't have to tip to a company that paid a living wage but charged more.

Probably could be a really interesting research topic but Uber comes to mind as part of the reason I loved it at the beginning was the lack of tipping.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#72

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:11 AM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #63

maxerickson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

> It's not complicated It _is_ complicated. It's so complicated that (i) there are discussions on the internet about whether 15% or 20% or 25% is fair, and (ii) there are many specialised 'tip calculator' apps. When I walk into a restaurant, how much should I be expecting to pay for 'meets expectation' service? Is this a % of the bill, or a $ amount related to the amount of time I'm being served (a proxy for the amou…

I didn't say tipping was a great system, I said that you shouldn't eat at sit down restaurants in the US if you have a problem with it.

I guess if you want external validation of what is fair you can make it complicated, but I was trying to focus on tips not being extra compensation in that specific situation.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#73

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:13 AM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #65

maxerickson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

It's complicated because its so ingrained in our society yet its completely unenforced except only by at most intense personal judgement. Do we tip because the food service industry cannot meet demands to pay all staff at least minimum wage? Is it because minimum wage nationally is too low and people feel the need to fill in that missing %? Why would I tip a waiter and not a customer service representative? What abou…

In the specific instance of sit down restaurants, we tip because that is how the transaction is structured.

Do you think if restaurants had to pay their staff 4 times as much (minimum wage for servers is often ~$3 per hour but they probably take home closer to $10 or more) that the prices on the menu would stay the same? Do you see how that makes Do we tip because the food service industry cannot meet demands to pay all staff at least minimum wage? the wrong question to be asking?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#74

Post by acjohnson55 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:14 AM UTC

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#75

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:14 AM UTC

megablast wrote: post #69

[deleted] wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So every job where you deal with people should resort to this method of payment? Sure, that is a great idea. I look forward to tipping my supermarket clerk, the post office guy, the delivery guy, the bus driver. Japan has the right idea.

[deleted]

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#76

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:16 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #64

madeofpalk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well not directly. Why, as a consumer, am I making a decision on how much the staff will earn that day. That's the employer's responsibility. Why doesn't the restaurant owner set the price of what they sell accordingly to cover all costs (incl. wages)? In Australia, the price I see on the menu is the price I'm charged and the price I pay. That includes wages!

[deleted]

IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world.

If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for.

If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's their responsibility to assess what that is - hopefully their in touch enough with their business to identify if it's because of their employees service and 'apply pressure' if need be.

I guess ultimately it comes down to culture. I (and the large majority of the non-US world) isn't accustom to paying 10%+ extra for bad and rude service and it would be very hard for us to understand why that happens.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#77

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:20 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #76

[deleted] wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world. If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for. If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's…

[deleted]

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#78

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:25 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #77

madeofpalk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world. If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for. If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's…

[deleted]

I prefer to leave managing, controling and rewarding employees up to the employer, and I'll take care of paying the price I see on the menu and making the decision on whether to come back or not.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#79

Post by acjohnson55 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:29 AM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #50

js2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face.…

I guess my struggle is internal then. I feel crappy about myself for being weak for tipping because I feel like I'm being scammed out of my own money via guilt given to me by their employer. And then I feel crappy if I don't tip.

You should feel crappy if you don't tip. It's an "honor system" but the wages assume that people tip servers. I know, it's absurd, but that's the system. If you don't want to tip, please don't eat at places where waitstaff are paid a wage that presumes tips.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#80

Post by EC1 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 2:30 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #73

EC1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's complicated because its so ingrained in our society yet its completely unenforced except only by at most intense personal judgement. Do we tip because the food service industry cannot meet demands to pay all staff at least minimum wage? Is it because minimum wage nationally is too low and people feel the need to fill in that missing %? Why would I tip a waiter and not a customer service representative? What abou…

In the specific instance of sit down restaurants, we tip because that is how the transaction is structured. Do you think if restaurants had to pay their staff 4 times as much (minimum wage for servers is often ~$3 per hour but they probably take home closer to $10 or more) that the prices on the menu would stay the same? Do you see how that makes Do we tip because the food service industry cannot meet demands to pay…

I'd rather the burden of staff being paid be shifted to the employer and made up in the difference in cost of food. I'm from Canada where our minimum wage is quite decent, $10.50.