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Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

spectator.co.uk

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Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#11
post #8
post #4

I think this is an important discussion to be had. The question of whether ideas like "trigger warnings" should be implemented in academia have good arguments on both sides. On a few of these issues I'm not sure where I stand yet and I'm very interested in hearing intelligent discourse from both sides over the next few years. However, I don't think this is a particularly good article on the topic. It's riddled with c…

What are the good arguments FOR "trigger warnings?"

My understanding based on reading the Geek Feminism Wiki [1] is that the author misrepresented trigger warnings as a signal that something might be offensive when rather they are actually meant to give people a warning that content may re-open deep psychological wounds (such as a PTSD flashback from abuse, urges to self-harm, etc).

[1] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Trigger_warning

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#12

Why is this sneering garbage on HN? Look, none of this is new. Universities have always been contentious places, students have always been belligerent and uninterested in hearing the views of their opponents. This is what it is to be young: to believe fully, with or without justification. A generation ago in the US, SDS would have barricaded themselves into the room with both these master debaters and held them hosta…

> students have always been belligerent and uninterested in hearing the views of their opponents

Agreed. But I don't know to what degree the school should accept the students' demands.

> This is a screed from a man who is upset that he is not being handed a platform to speak. [...] No one invited me to speak at Oxford either.

That's not what the author describes, though: they were invited to speak at Oxford, and students who didn't want that event to take place complained until it was cancelled.

> That doesn't make this a free speech issue.

It's not, I agree. But it's something, and not a good something.

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#13
post #8
post #4

I think this is an important discussion to be had. The question of whether ideas like "trigger warnings" should be implemented in academia have good arguments on both sides. On a few of these issues I'm not sure where I stand yet and I'm very interested in hearing intelligent discourse from both sides over the next few years. However, I don't think this is a particularly good article on the topic. It's riddled with c…

What are the good arguments FOR "trigger warnings?"

> What are the good arguments FOR "trigger warnings?"

If you've ever seen a rape survivor having a PTSD-induced breakdown, you consider it polite to avoid causing that when practical.

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#14

Why is this sneering garbage on HN? Look, none of this is new. Universities have always been contentious places, students have always been belligerent and uninterested in hearing the views of their opponents. This is what it is to be young: to believe fully, with or without justification. A generation ago in the US, SDS would have barricaded themselves into the room with both these master debaters and held them hosta…

I don't think it's fair to say that nothing has changed.

In previous generations, students absolutely would have protested. But administrations wouldn't have been so quick to give in to social outrage and to ban speakers. One of the unfortunate effects of social media is that allowing controversy of any sort has become much more dangerous. What might once have garnered a few feminist protestors outside a church (or evangelicals protesting outside a school) now elicits thousands of angry reactionaries on Twitter and Tumblr.

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#15
post #2

An interesting message that was expressed better by Allan Bloom, 30 years ago and with less rape/misogyny-apologism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Closing_of_the_American_Min... .

What part of that article did you construe as rape/misogyny-apologism?

The whole piece is dreck, a defense of bare-faced bullying of women and gays clothed in the pretense of the first amendment. The social value of speech has always been a factor in the first amendment analysis, and e.g. flyers insulting ugly women and gays don't have any.

The worst thing about the article isn't the defense of misogyny and homophobia. It's that it makes it that much more difficult to argue socially-conservative viewpoints that really matter without getting lumped in with guys like these and their vacuous assertions.

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#17
post #8
post #4

I think this is an important discussion to be had. The question of whether ideas like "trigger warnings" should be implemented in academia have good arguments on both sides. On a few of these issues I'm not sure where I stand yet and I'm very interested in hearing intelligent discourse from both sides over the next few years. However, I don't think this is a particularly good article on the topic. It's riddled with c…

What are the good arguments FOR "trigger warnings?"

We impose limitations on Free Speech for libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, and campaign finance reform. (This incomplete list scraped from Wikipedia). The means by which we decide these exceptions are by applying the principle of harm and the principle of offense, so named by John Stewart Mill. Specifically, we determine whether the speech actively causes, or is likely to cause, actual harm or whether it merely only has the capability to, but may not, cause harm.

On one side proponents will suggest that 'trigger warning' discussions are merely offensive to those who may possibly but will not necessarily be harmed - they are offensive but not harmful and this then is not enough to limit it as speech. Furthermore ample forewarning can be given to limit the exposure of someone sensitive to what is going to be spoken and a choice can be made in advance by someone who is sensitive to possible trigger warnings to participate.

On the other side, arguments can be made that (A.) exclusion from the debate based on the possible presence of trigger warnings legitimizes a paternalism because victims can not then show up to the debates (B.) the size of the class of potential victims and the scope of some discussions make it inevitable that harm will be done to someone or (C.) that the affects of open discussion on certain topics themselves have societal affects that cause harm as they institutionalize harmful norms (there are many examples from history).

There are topics and scenarios that exist on the boundary between the principle of harm and the principle of offense. Good arguments can fit these issues squarely into one or the other.

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#19
post #4

I think this is an important discussion to be had. The question of whether ideas like "trigger warnings" should be implemented in academia have good arguments on both sides. On a few of these issues I'm not sure where I stand yet and I'm very interested in hearing intelligent discourse from both sides over the next few years. However, I don't think this is a particularly good article on the topic. It's riddled with c…

I see what you're saying, but I don't see how it could have been done differently.

How can you discuss/complain about problematic behavior without mentioning some examples of the behavior in question?

Re: Free speech is last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

#20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of that article did you construe as rape/misogyny-apologism?

The whole piece is dreck, a defense of bare-faced bullying of women and gays clothed in the pretense of the first amendment. The social value of speech has always been a factor in the first amendment analysis, and e.g. flyers insulting ugly women and gays don't have any. The worst thing about the article isn't the defense of misogyny and homophobia. It's that it makes it that much more difficult to argue socially-con…

Just to be pedantic, the author of the article is British, all the students involved are British, and hence the First Amendment (to the US Constitution, as I assume you meant) is irrelevant.

Of course the UK has its own concept of freedom of speech, albeit quite different from the US one.

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