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My favourite interview question (2006)

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Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#71

Post by overgard »

napoleond wrote: post #26
overgard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this way, but one of the best programmers I work with basically refuses to even touch a computer outside of work. And yet he's extremely good at what he does, and you can figure that out within like 15 seconds of talking to him about a hard problem. As far as heuristics go I don't think this is a good one.

Your friend is an exception. I've met a few, too, but the majority of top-tier programmers I know program outside of work. I'm not talking about "hackathons" and shit like that, or github profiles--usually just personal projects for practical or amusement (often both) purposes. Heuristics are, unfortunately, quite valuable in hiring scenarios, especially for start-ups. It's also just much more fun to work with people…

>It's also just much more fun to work with people who love programming, and an easy way to tell (even if it's susceptible to a few false negatives like your friend) is to find out if they program in their own time.

The thing is though, you can love programming and find that 40 hours a week of it is more than enough. I think what you'd find with this heuristic is that it tends to favor young people. It's a lot easier to be enthusiastic about some side project when you're 20 than when you're 40 and have a lot of responsibilities.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#72

Post by 16bytes »

greenleafjacob wrote: post #48
16bytes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this question and use it as part of my interview deck. It is only part of the deck, however. This question is a great positive indicator, but a terrible negative indicator. That is to say, a person who works on a lot of stuff in their spare time is very likely to be someone I'd like to hire. The reverse isn't true, which is why there are other questions in the deck. I realize that there are great developers wh…

What if you have side projects that make money, i.e. are "work"? Is that discounted by "non-work, non-school" or by non-work do you mean "not your day job"?

It's a completely open-ended question and I word it differently depending on how the interview is going. You can demonstrate passion for technology even if what you talked about was a one-off utility that you wrote for your job.

I want to see if your eyes light up when you talk about it.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#73

Post by S4M »

luu wrote: post #2

Am I the only one who thinks that this kind of design question is the new "how many gas stations are there in Manhattan?" In both cases, the point isn't to get the right answer, but (allegedly) to see how the person thinks. With the estimation question, the trick is to make up some plausible-ish numbers and then multiply and/or add them to get a plausible-ish result. If someone's seen one of those before, they'll nai…

I think it's a fine question. You are asked to design a program that would do something sufficiently complex and ill specified, which is something you will encounter on the job.

I am not saying that you shouldn't test the coding abilities of your candidate, but it looks to me a good way to see how he/she reasons about the various components of the system and asks for requirements.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#74

Post by stevebot »

yannyu wrote: post #50
stevebot wrote: post #47

I would much rather hear about their past projects and have them clearly convey design decisions that they made before then have them work on a "on the fly" question. Everybody has off days, not many people have whole off years or careers. Just because I can't design Monopoly in one hour on a certain given day doesn't mean I do not have the relevant experience in my past, whether it be professional or as an undergrad…

It's not as though this is the only question by which the interviewee will be appraised. This is one more tool in the kit alongside asking about previous projects, interesting classes, career goals, overcoming tough situations, etc. Whether or not questions like these are effective, the point of them is to engage with someone in a way that illustrates how they tackle complex, loosely defined issues: the majority of e…

You missed my point. People are prepared to talk about their resume, but when you dig in to their past experience and specifics that is where you get to the interesting discussions.

Case and point:

Tell me about a design pattern you used on X project?

A singleton? Ok, why did you use that?

and a long discussion about testability and architecture ensues with questions from both sides. That is WAY more like the communication that happens on the job than a contrived problem which in many cases is disconnected from real life constraints.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#75

Post by veb »

rhc2104 wrote: post #53
pearjuice wrote: post #30

I don't have been to coding interviews recently but is this what it is like these days? How long do these questions generally take to complete? When I hear white boards, UML diagrams and OO-design I am thinking about investing at least a few hours. Back in my day there were no interviews like these. You just dropped your CV, had a chat with the guy and if it clicked you got a contract with a month on (paid) trial. Wh…

Paid trials also work (for example, I was a contract-to-hire at my current job). But many people don't want to leave the security of their current job for a temporary contract, so you would need to spend more time vetting those candidates.

New Zealand has this law, in which new jobs have a 3 month 'trial period'. (unless specified otherwise in the contract). So if someone's hired and it's clear they cannot code or interact well with the team they can be let go as long as it's within that 3 month period.

Personally... I don't like it. But I do understand the logic, and how it helps businesses from making expensive mistakes in regards to hiring.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#76

Post by whyaduck »

ColinWright wrote: post #46
whyaduck wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a good week I work 50 hours. In a bad week, 80 or 90 (or more). In my spare time I have family commitments, play guitar, draw, paint, hike, ride my mountain bike, and travel. Ask me that question and I'll probably find a way to wind up politely and leave.

I'm sure there are many here who would agree with you, but let me offer an alternative viewpoint. You said: > Ask me that question and I'll probably > find a way to wind up politely and leave. The implication is that rather than opening a dialog with someone to (a) find out why they think that question is relevant, and (b) offer reasons why you'd be a good fit despite not working with code outside your job, you'd sim…

My initial answer may have been a bit short, but it wasn't actually binary; my response would depend on, among other things, how the question was asked, as well as other indicators. As a mid-career professional, however, that question's a sign that I'm probably not going to fit into the "culture". To be honest, I've been through my share of interviews and I only remember getting a similar question once (it was related to technical blogging/participation on tech sites like StackOverflow or similar). In that case they made it clear that it wasn't a necessity but it was definitely nice to have. I went through the first interview and was asked back for another, but I dropped out of the process for unrelated reasons.

Regardless, if it makes me not want to work for you, and you don't want to hire me because of my reaction to the question, then my likely response would be win/win, right? :)

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#77

Post by protomyth »

whyaduck wrote: post #17
protomyth wrote: post #16

I generally went with a question my friend told me, "what was the last non-work, non-school program you wrote?". The theory being that a person who has used programming for something personal was probably a better candidate since they saw personal value in their profession.

In a good week I work 50 hours. In a bad week, 80 or 90 (or more). In my spare time I have family commitments, play guitar, draw, paint, hike, ride my mountain bike, and travel. Ask me that question and I'll probably find a way to wind up politely and leave.

So, you've never once did any program for your own benefit? Sent in a patch for some project? Programmed something because you thought it would be neat or scratched an itch? I know plenty of carpenters who put in long hours but have used their skills to build a chair or table for themselves.

I've never used this as an only question, but I have got better results from people who have used their skills to solve some problem for themselves, but that isn't unique to programming.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#78

Post by ColinWright »

whyaduck wrote: post #76
ColinWright wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are many here who would agree with you, but let me offer an alternative viewpoint. You said: > Ask me that question and I'll probably > find a way to wind up politely and leave. The implication is that rather than opening a dialog with someone to (a) find out why they think that question is relevant, and (b) offer reasons why you'd be a good fit despite not working with code outside your job, you'd sim…

My initial answer may have been a bit short, but it wasn't actually binary; my response would depend on, among other things, how the question was asked, as well as other indicators. As a mid-career professional, however, that question's a sign that I'm probably not going to fit into the "culture". To be honest, I've been through my share of interviews and I only remember getting a similar question once (it was relate…

Maybe, although the other aspects of your response - the reasons why you don't program outside of work - make it clear that I would definitely want to know more, and it's completely plausible that you would be a good fit. But we wouldn't discover that if you simply wound things up and walked out. I find it hard to believe that you are active here and would not be an excellent contributor - the walking out is at odds with that.

Then again, maybe you would not be a good fit. My comment is simply that based on just one question you are actively avoiding finding out.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#79

Post by protomyth »

greenleafjacob wrote: post #48
16bytes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this question and use it as part of my interview deck. It is only part of the deck, however. This question is a great positive indicator, but a terrible negative indicator. That is to say, a person who works on a lot of stuff in their spare time is very likely to be someone I'd like to hire. The reverse isn't true, which is why there are other questions in the deck. I realize that there are great developers wh…

What if you have side projects that make money, i.e. are "work"? Is that discounted by "non-work, non-school" or by non-work do you mean "not your day job"?

I phrase it so it is the "not your day job" version. In the more general sense a better phrasing is "something that wasn't required of you by others". Since I wrapped it in other questions, I got the idea across. If it made money, cool. Just so there was no one saying "you need to do this".

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#80

Post by whyaduck »

pc86 wrote: post #66
whyaduck wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a good week I work 50 hours. In a bad week, 80 or 90 (or more). In my spare time I have family commitments, play guitar, draw, paint, hike, ride my mountain bike, and travel. Ask me that question and I'll probably find a way to wind up politely and leave.

> Ask me that question and I'll probably find a way to wind up politely and leave. I'm always confused when I see this sentiment. I only ever see it on HN, and only when someone feels they've been asked a question below their station or that is inherently insulting.

Neither - just an indicator that we may not be a good match and I'll act accordingly. I have a limited amount of time, and when I'm searching I'm pretty ruthless about controlling the number of interviews I take.
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