My favourite interview question (2006) • Hacker News Board

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#31

Post by jakobegger » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:08 PM UTC

napoleond wrote: post #27

rogy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i HATE this question but its becoming more and more commonplace. I work hard, programming 40-70 hours a week, I solve all sorts of in work problems with ideas that I've come up with to make my daily work life easier. I barely touch a computer outside of the office. Does that make me a bad candidate for all programming jobs now?

The question is a litmus test for whether or not you're passionate about programming. That may sound unfair ("Why do I need to be passionate about this? It's just a job...") but the field we work in is constantly changing and the only way anyone has a hope in hell of staying abreast is if they really love it. So if you manage to keep tabs on the industry through your colleagues and you're excited about what you're wo…

It's not. If you have kids there's just no time to start a personal project next to a full time job. Having a side project just tells your employer you have a lot of spare time.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#32

Post by Balgair » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:11 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #16

I generally went with a question my friend told me, "what was the last non-work, non-school program you wrote?". The theory being that a person who has used programming for something personal was probably a better candidate since they saw personal value in their profession.

Programming is like any other job, in that programming is a tool that you use. I like this question, as it determines what the candidate uses the tools of their trade for. The answer may be that you do not program in your free time, and that may be just what the interviewer is looking for: someone that knows programing is a tool for making money, nothing more. Conversely, they may not like the answer, as it does not show the person thinks that programming is a tool to be used in the same way as a lawnmower; to more easily achieve an objective. In the end, the question, response, and counter response reveal a lot about the people and the situation. I'll add, in the end, the only thing that you, as an interviewer, should be concerned with is: how will this person make me money? Programming ethos, passion, and skill all add to this, but culture fit, propensity to post to HN at work, and family constraints all fit into this seemingly simple question of how to make dollars.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#33

Post by pearjuice » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:13 PM UTC

supsep wrote: post #18

I beg to differ, Monopoly can be done using 'simplistic' object design. An array is the monopoly map, a user is an object and the bank is a singleton. Done.

supsep, you are a great candidate but unfortunately you don't seem that great of a fit for our Abstract Enterprise Java culture. I am sure there are a lot of other companies who adhere to your mindset!

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#34

Post by prezjordan » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:14 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #16

I generally went with a question my friend told me, "what was the last non-work, non-school program you wrote?". The theory being that a person who has used programming for something personal was probably a better candidate since they saw personal value in their profession.

If I know the candidate has side projects (listed on their website, github, etc.) I'll ask about them. If not, I don't even touch this question.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#35

Post by 16bytes » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:18 PM UTC

whyaduck wrote: post #17

protomyth wrote: post #16

I generally went with a question my friend told me, "what was the last non-work, non-school program you wrote?". The theory being that a person who has used programming for something personal was probably a better candidate since they saw personal value in their profession.

In a good week I work 50 hours. In a bad week, 80 or 90 (or more). In my spare time I have family commitments, play guitar, draw, paint, hike, ride my mountain bike, and travel. Ask me that question and I'll probably find a way to wind up politely and leave.

I love this question and use it as part of my interview deck. It is only part of the deck, however.

This question is a great positive indicator, but a terrible negative indicator.

That is to say, a person who works on a lot of stuff in their spare time is very likely to be someone I'd like to hire. The reverse isn't true, which is why there are other questions in the deck. I realize that there are great developers who don't have a well populated github profile and dozens of side projects.

If I had a candidate that had trouble with the question, I'd expect them to say so. I'm a pretty reasonable person. I would not expect them to try and exit the interview early with little to no indication why.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#36

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #16

I generally went with a question my friend told me, "what was the last non-work, non-school program you wrote?". The theory being that a person who has used programming for something personal was probably a better candidate since they saw personal value in their profession.

[deleted]

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#37

Post by wvenable » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:23 PM UTC

napoleond wrote: post #27

rogy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i HATE this question but its becoming more and more commonplace. I work hard, programming 40-70 hours a week, I solve all sorts of in work problems with ideas that I've come up with to make my daily work life easier. I barely touch a computer outside of the office. Does that make me a bad candidate for all programming jobs now?

The question is a litmus test for whether or not you're passionate about programming. That may sound unfair ("Why do I need to be passionate about this? It's just a job...") but the field we work in is constantly changing and the only way anyone has a hope in hell of staying abreast is if they really love it. So if you manage to keep tabs on the industry through your colleagues and you're excited about what you're wo…

On the other hand, you can code dozens of personal projects every week and be terrible at programming. When I had the time for many personal projects, I was a much less capable developer than I am now. I run circles around that guy now.

So I'm not sure why the person without personal projects needs to demonstrate that they're keeping tabs on the industry any more than someone who does.

Seems like you want to ensure X by testing for Y and mistaking correlation with causation.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#38

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

whyaduck wrote: post #21

serve_yay wrote: post #11

I once got a similar question, but with Battleship. I don't really enjoy these high-level design things, they seem silly and irrelevant to me, but I can see how someone with different interests would like it. (That particular place made me an offer, I'm not doing sour grapes.)

Are they irrelevant because you don't do design or because you think design is self evident? Working on a large scale project with technical debt will convince you of how important design is.

All it's convinced me of is that most people don't think about decoupling, structure and reuse... The older I get the more I tend to favor functional composition over more typical OO implementations.

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#39

Post by grogers » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

napoleond wrote: post #26

overgard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this way, but one of the best programmers I work with basically refuses to even touch a computer outside of work. And yet he's extremely good at what he does, and you can figure that out within like 15 seconds of talking to him about a hard problem. As far as heuristics go I don't think this is a good one.

Your friend is an exception. I've met a few, too, but the majority of top-tier programmers I know program outside of work. I'm not talking about "hackathons" and shit like that, or github profiles--usually just personal projects for practical or amusement (often both) purposes. Heuristics are, unfortunately, quite valuable in hiring scenarios, especially for start-ups. It's also just much more fun to work with people…

It probably depends on where you work. Most of my colleagues are amazing developers, but very very few of them actually do side projects at home. Most of us wish we had more time, and would like to do this or that as a side project - but there isn't enough time in each day to do everything you want to do.

The only exception to this was a guy who did amazing work on side projects, but the work he did for his paying job suffered significantly...

Re: My favourite interview question (2006)

#40

Post by joncrocks » Tue, Dec 23, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #3

Probably should have checked before posting...this was discussed 4 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2062889 (so I guess it's eligible for re-discussion) I stumbled across it doing a Google search for "interview question elevator design"...I haven't been asked in a technical interview about how I would implement the logic for an elevator controller, but I heard about the question second-hand at a colleg…

Every time I use the lifts in the building I work in I think of this question. There's only 7 floors, yet the software appears to be rubbish.

The idle time question is an interesting/important one, arguably the more important for elevators for relatively low utilisation, where the capacity is there, but you wait for a lift as they are all elsewhere.

In my building it seems that not only do the elevators not have sensible 'resting points' at peak times of the day, it seems that it also doesn't weight requests at all, so you get a massive number of people waiting at the ground floor, as only one lift is sent at a time.

And even if there are multiple elevators waiting at the ground floor, they will only open one at a time, once another lift has left.