https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaTl2kW6YU The full documentary by BBC.
For those of us in the UK (or with access to a UK-based proxy)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04vs348/panorama-apple...
Apple goes to war with the BBC
51–60 of 86 posts
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#52Sleeping publicly in asian cultures is perfectly normal. I remember seeing these asian students just passed out on university benches once I started studies abroad. The journalist says 'it seems that they have no choice'. So he just displayed his cultural unconsciousness and publicly alleged Apple of wrongdoing. One could easily speculate that people working in western societies are pumped up with caffeine, sugar or…
If I recall, in Japan if you're not seen sleeping at your desk then you've not been working hard enough.
And it's perfectly acceptable to beat your domestic help in the UAE.
Let's not confuse 'accepted' with 'acceptable'.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're contending Foxconn has a dramatically higher suicide rate than reported, is there any evidence for the accusation?
I would contend that Foxconn employees' overall suicide rate is likely to be larger than their reported workplace suicide rate, for reasons that are presumably obvious. Edit: Looking at http://www.wellness.com/news/6427/us-workplace-suicides-jump... , it looks like in the US workplace suicides are less than 1% of overall suicides. Doubtless different in China, but hopefully makes the point that comparing the two stat…
My understanding from news reports - correct me if I'm wrong - is that Foxconn employees tend to live in dorms and spend most of their time on company grounds.
Even if they're all going home and committing suicide there, the only evidence I've seen put forward for the supposed wave of suicides is the workplace ones. The stats there don't back up the claims.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#54Sleeping publicly in asian cultures is perfectly normal. I remember seeing these asian students just passed out on university benches once I started studies abroad. The journalist says 'it seems that they have no choice'. So he just displayed his cultural unconsciousness and publicly alleged Apple of wrongdoing. One could easily speculate that people working in western societies are pumped up with caffeine, sugar or…
> Sleeping publicly in asian cultures is perfectly normal.
So is sleeping on the job after 12 hour shifts. The issue isnt sleeping publicly but the 12 hour shift thing. Your argument is a big strawman,even the best spin doctors wouldnt dare using that argument,unless maybe those on fox news.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple is the biggest to it must be taken down first. I prefer focused attack on apple than watered down on many fronts.
Apple is the biggest what? They certainly don't make the most anything. Oh, you mean the most headline grabbing.
Biggest by market capitalization.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I recall, in Japan if you're not seen sleeping at your desk then you've not been working hard enough.
And it's perfectly acceptable to beat your domestic help in the UAE. Let's not confuse 'accepted' with 'acceptable'.
Well, that's about as ridiculous a leap as I can imagine.
Some Asian nations have culturally integrated the fact that naps boost productivity[1][2][3] but we should impose our own cultural standards on them because they might actually be a bunch of uncivilized mongrels and it's our responsibility to teach them the error of their ways.
[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/07/24/why-you-...
[2] http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/america-its-ti...
[3] http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Let...
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
So should we not also look down on those companies? Why do we give companies a pass to exploit workers because other companies do as well?
I don't know if a 60 hour work week counts as exploitation. If you options are 400$/month and 40 hour weeks or 600$ a month and 60 hour weeks a lot of people are going to chose the second option. IMO, when it comes to exploitation pay, working conditions, and irregular work schedules can be far more exploitive than simple hours worked. Also, dorm style housing next to a factory dramatically cut down on commute times…
Bear in mind that the salary these workers get is probably less than half that. Last year, according to the Daily Mail (yeah...), they were being paid £180 ($300) per month [0]. The salary these workers get is a small percentage of the retail price of these devices, it's not like Apple can't afford to pay them a decent salary and provide ethical working conditions.
[0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103798/Revealed-Ins...
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#58The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. That makes it more difficult to tell when a criticism of Apple is genuine, because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story can write a story about something Apple is doing not well enough and get away with it, since everyone seems to love to hate on Apple. So if Apple really is up…
> The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. Well given Apple insane margins,and other tricks they pull(like tax avoidance in Europe),Apple case stands out more than other brands because of the company reputation,"success" and wealth. > because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story There is no controversy here.Apple(and o…
> And frankly,that story isn't really about Apple.Judging by the comments below the article,it's more about us and our denial to accept the fact that the comfort we live in is built on the pain and suffering of others on the other side of the planet.
I agree. But the problem with framing it in terms of Apple (like these articles often do) is that it provides people an easy out: "Oh, those Apple people are bad eggs, I would never buy something they make!". But it's not just Apple, it's our entire economy, and we as a culture won't ever have to face it if it's pinned on one or two companies.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#59The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. That makes it more difficult to tell when a criticism of Apple is genuine, because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story can write a story about something Apple is doing not well enough and get away with it, since everyone seems to love to hate on Apple. So if Apple really is up…
There are more idiot Apple apologists than there are idiot journalists, so it should equal out.
Re: Apple goes to war with the BBC
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Foxconn's suicide rate turns out to be lower than the Chinese general population's suicide rate. They've got the population of a good sized city. Per Wikipedia: > Although the number of workplace suicides at the company was large in absolute terms, the rate is still low when compared to the rest of China. (However, the country has a high suicide rate with over 20 deaths per 100,000 persons.) In 2010, the worst year f…
> Foxconn's suicide rate turns out to be lower than the Chinese general population's suicide rate. Foxconn employees' workplace suicide rate. In general I'd expect the workplace suicide rate to be a small fraction of the overall suicide rate. Maybe Foxonn employees never leave their workplace and the figures are the same, but that's not great either.
> Maybe Foxonn employees never leave their workplace and the figures are the same,
They don't—their workplace is an entire city, pretty much.
> but that's not great either.
It's not, but it's a very different issue, and conflating the two is harmful to handling either.