I find it really weird that on HN, which in general I find to be a pro-capitalist, let-the-market-sort-it-out kind of place, so many commenters seem irked at businesses 'being cheap' by offloading waitstaff salaries onto tips. I'm just a simple country hyperchicken, but isn't this that 'maximizing shareholder value' stuff I've been hearing so much about?
Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
121–130 of 161 posts
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#122I find it really weird that on HN, which in general I find to be a pro-capitalist, let-the-market-sort-it-out kind of place, so many commenters seem irked at businesses 'being cheap' by offloading waitstaff salaries onto tips. I'm just a simple country hyperchicken, but isn't this that 'maximizing shareholder value' stuff I've been hearing so much about?
First, "maximising shareholder value" is essentially a government regulation which many would argue is not "capitalistic" in the classic sense.
Second, one can both support capitalism as a system and dislike some business practices.
Third, there is no guarantee that offloading salaries onto tips will result in maximising shareholder value since it could result in less customers using the service.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#123It's hard for me to see how this doesn't hurt local vendors badly. Of course, it depends on what the the 25,000 items are, but that was one of the key differentiators between Amazon and local stores--if you needed something and you needed it now, the local store was the only option (things like cabling for a new TV, gifts for a party that night, etc). Now, for prime members in NYC at least, Amazon is a viable option.…
The local stores I visit are almost never mom & pop shops anyways, but huge franchises like Home Depot, Walgreens, Safeway, or Target. So the feel good factor is non-existent.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Or don't pay a living wage." Why does every job have to pay a "living wage"? Almost all the pizza delivery folks I knew were doing it part-time for extra cash. Pizza delivery is not a long term career. This notion that every job is a career job is just silly and is detrimental to our youth trying to pick up extra cash and some experience.
Because it's so, so easy to get trapped in a cycle of endless below-livable jobs just to support yourself. My personal belief, and I'm more than willing to pay more for goods and services to support it, and I live in a country where we have a liveable minimal wage, is that every job if worked 40 hours should be enough for a very modest, but not totally hopeless life. You also then have time off to use to improve your…
> Because it's so, so easy to get trapped in a cycle of endless below-livable jobs just to support yourself.
That's an appeal to emotions and has nothing to do with the argument.
> My personal belief, and I'm more than willing to pay more for goods and services to support it, and I live in a country where we have a liveable minimal wage, is that every job if worked 40 hours should be enough for a very modest, but not totally hopeless life. You also then have time off to use to improve yourself via school or some other way.
You are more than willing to pay more, but the very people you talk about who need cheap goods and services to stretch a budget don't have that extra money. The forcing of every job to be "living wages" removes a part of the labor force that is willing and able (due to parents or other income) to provide services for less money. Removing part-time, dependent labor from the the market increases the costs of goods and services for everyone and screws poor people. You might feel better, but it has a detrimental effect.
> If you're working back-to-back jobs 80 hours a week that pay nothing you have zero time for yourself, zero time for good planning and zero time to attend any kind of classes.
This is a different issue. This is the disappearance of full-time, low skill jobs. There are many factors including changing laws that have impacted this area. Our current bad economy and companies preparing for changes in health care laws are two. Worsening the situation by raising the minimum wage is only going to get more people fired / hours reduced or speed automation (McDonald's self ordering machines).
Doing something to help people get an education or training is one thing, eliminating a whole class of workers that make goods and services cheaper is a problem.
I remember the paper, and remember a negative reaction, but do not have time to read and find my sources on it again.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#125It's hard for me to see how this doesn't hurt local vendors badly. Of course, it depends on what the the 25,000 items are, but that was one of the key differentiators between Amazon and local stores--if you needed something and you needed it now, the local store was the only option (things like cabling for a new TV, gifts for a party that night, etc). Now, for prime members in NYC at least, Amazon is a viable option.…
What does the local store win on? I think in the long-run, it'll be price. Sure, in the short-term, Amazon can do what they do and undercut on price, but in the modern age, Wal-Mart has pretty much figured out the optimal model of inventory storage/distribution and the model of keeping inventory on-hand and having customers come to them enables them to do this at an incredibly large scale and at razor-thin margins. Y…
Walmart hardly counts as a "local" store. (For that matter, they also sell online.) And between Walmart and Amazon, I'd much rather do business with Amazon.
Actual "local" stores seem highly unlikely to win on price.
I suspect that Amazon and others will solve the "showroom" problem in the not too distant future, for the handful of products where that actually matters.
Other than brand loyalty, I don't see any obvious niche that a local store could do better.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I have. Japanese customer service wipes the floor with US customer service, and they'll run down the street to return your "forgotten change" if you attempt to tip in a restaurant.
Agreed, but I think Japanese service culture is an exceptional case ... really haven't experienced anything like it anywhere else.
Service in Korea is also quite good despite a no tipping culture.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you experienced customer service in countries where there is no tipping? It is often entertaining and involves unpredictable "extra work". Perhaps digital reputation systems will provide a stick to replace the carrot of tipping, unless labor laws evolve to impose Fair Reporting on mobile logistics data.
Yes, I have. Japanese customer service wipes the floor with US customer service, and they'll run down the street to return your "forgotten change" if you attempt to tip in a restaurant.
The flip side is that it is thoroughly expected that you remain loyal to your establishment. No going to a restaurant just because it's close by. You go to your good friend's restaurant instead, even if it's across town.
This arrangement isn't free or magical. It exists because of the cultural wrappings.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cost is always going to be covered by the consumer.
When the cost is included in the bill, the consumer has less choice. When its an implied "tip", its optional.
In theory yes, but it's basically not optional when the overwhelming social consensus is that you're a horrible person if you don't tip, even for mediocre service. Maybe it started out as a way to reward excellent service, but now it just allows businesses to deceive customers by posting prices that are less than what you actually end up paying.
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I have. Japanese customer service wipes the floor with US customer service, and they'll run down the street to return your "forgotten change" if you attempt to tip in a restaurant.
Agreed, but I think Japanese service culture is an exceptional case ... really haven't experienced anything like it anywhere else.
Taiwan would also like to disagree with you
Re: Amazon Unveils One-Hour Delivery Service
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cost is always going to be covered by the consumer.
When the cost is included in the bill, the consumer has less choice. When its an implied "tip", its optional.
No contradiction. The customer has the choice of covering the tip with money or with social retribution.
Either way, they're the ones paying.