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The drug revolution that no one can stop

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Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#81

Post by girvo »

refurb wrote: post #70
girvo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand how desomorphine can be created through the RP/I route. It makes pretty much zero sense based on my chemistry knowledge (BSci in Chemistry, but didn't complete it, dropped out third year). I've no idea what they're actually injecting, but I do know that a lot of the photos a number of years ago that were tagged as "Krokodil" were in fact a different drug entirely

RP/I2 is basically a source of hydrogen iodide (HI). If you look at desomorphine, it's just a morphine molecule without the bottom hydroxyl group and the double bond reduced. HI will reductively deoxygenate benzyl alcohols. The oxygen removed in morphine is an allyic alcohol which is in conjugation with the aromatic ring, so it has "benzyl alcohol-like properties". HI will also reduce the double bond. As for the reac…

I had something much larger typed up, but I'll be honest, it's been a number of years since I studied and my chemistry is a bit rusty. From what I seem to remember, I would've thought the apomorphine rearrangement would be more likely to prevail in the conditions given from a RP/I2 reaction, but I'm possibly completely off-base now (see above: rusty!).

I'd be super curious to see whether anyone has properly analysed what comes out of that reaction, and what those addicts are putting into their veins (aside from horrendous toxic byproducts). The reaction method makes some sense, but reactions with opiates are typically finicky, so I've always been skeptical of these reports. I'd expect desomorphine to be present, yes, but in trace amounts at best (along with morphine and other byproducts)!

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#82

Post by philwelch »

protomyth wrote: post #26
coldcode wrote: post #2

I've never found any interest in taking anything stronger than an occasional beer but as a former chemist I find the research into these types of drugs fascinating. We really do need to look into areas that might be highly illegal if for no reason other than to learn how the brain works.

I dearly wish that in all the MJ legalization that some company would start extracting the chemical pain reliever and the appetite stimulant. We reduced smoking at it would be nice to have these in other forms.

The problem is that, if you're using it as an anti-nausea drug, you really don't want to take a pill that you're just going to throw up again! You want another method of intake.

And it turns out that vaporization is not only better for cannabis but tobacco as well, hence the e-cigarette craze.

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#83

Post by austerity »

frogpelt wrote: post #73
jpatokal wrote: post #29

And these shenanigans, too, would be entirely unnecessary if known drugs were legal and regulated, and people could take controlled risks instead of playing Russian roulette with newly synthesized drugs.

Its hard for me to wrap my mind around this. Are you a person is willing to risk losing their intellect, health, usefulness to society and even their life but is afraid of the legal repercussions of that decision? That doesn't make sense to me.

With many substances the legal risks are incomparably higher than the health risks. But it's not even the point. The illegality simply makes safer/more predictable substances much harder to obtain.

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#84

Post by austerity »

spacehome wrote: post #69
lostgame wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol: • makes people vomit • makes people fight and argue with each other • is incredibly easy to take to excess • physical addiction entirely possible • damaging to liver + kidneys Cannabis: • makes people lazy • makes people hungry • makes people generally friendlier • capable of curing cancer as well as many major diseases • not physically addictive So wait, what?

Alleviates symptoms of chemo, yes, but curing cancer? Is this a recent finding?

Yep. Not sure how good this particular source is but it was in the mainstream news recently. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cannabis-helps-shrink-aggressive-...

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#85

Post by austerity »

bigiain wrote: post #64
barrkel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented about using any drug entails some finite risk of bad effects. The apparently common belief that "designer drugs" shouldn't be "illegal" is certainly not supported by the article. I can see your line of thinking: X has risks, X should not be done, thus make X illegal and X will not be done and the risk will no longer exist. But that's not the way the world works. Making X illegal does not prevent X being d…

There's also the unspoken "X has risks, and I don't want to do X, therefore X should be illegal". I ride motorcycles. I have friends and family involved in scuba diving, paragliding, football, rock climbing, hell - even horse riding. _All_ of those activities have "well known risks of serious injury or death" associated with them, and each of them I've heard recent stories of death in the extended circles of my famil…

I wish so much to hear at least a semi-coherent response to this from the pro-prohibition crowd.

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#86

Post by zo1 »

barrkel wrote: post #38
jrapdx3 wrote: post #28

This article fits in with another thread here earlier today where I commented about using any drug entails some finite risk of bad effects. The apparently common belief that "designer drugs" shouldn't be "illegal" is certainly not supported by the article. I'm not sure what makes it so hard for some people to grasp the intrinsic dangers of ingesting "designer" drugs. Our physiology is complex and quirky, rendering al…

I commented about using any drug entails some finite risk of bad effects. The apparently common belief that "designer drugs" shouldn't be "illegal" is certainly not supported by the article. I can see your line of thinking: X has risks, X should not be done, thus make X illegal and X will not be done and the risk will no longer exist. But that's not the way the world works. Making X illegal does not prevent X being d…

>"I can see your line of thinking: X has risks, X should not be done, thus make X illegal and X will not be done and the risk will no longer exist."

I've tried on numerous occasions to debate with individuals that hold such an opinion. Once you point out the obvious error in their reasoning, they quickly move the goal post. It then becomes more about "protecting" productive society, and the slippery slope argument that everyone will devolve into "addicted, unproductive and unhealthy junkies". Making out to seem like we want society to burn and be ruined, when in actual fact we just want to allow individuals to be free to do with their bodies as they please, because there is no moral right by others to prevent them from doing so.

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#88

Post by krrrh »

philwelch wrote: post #82
protomyth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dearly wish that in all the MJ legalization that some company would start extracting the chemical pain reliever and the appetite stimulant. We reduced smoking at it would be nice to have these in other forms.

The problem is that, if you're using it as an anti-nausea drug, you really don't want to take a pill that you're just going to throw up again! You want another method of intake. And it turns out that vaporization is not only better for cannabis but tobacco as well, hence the e-cigarette craze.

E-cigarettes vaporize nicotine, not tobacco.

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#89

Post by praptak »

hristov wrote: post #80
jpatokal wrote: post #29

And these shenanigans, too, would be entirely unnecessary if known drugs were legal and regulated, and people could take controlled risks instead of playing Russian roulette with newly synthesized drugs.

Or maybe people just shouldn't take drugs.

Maybe. But how well has forcing this decision on worked so far?

Re: The drug revolution that no one can stop

#90

Post by raintrees »

hristov wrote: post #80
jpatokal wrote: post #29

And these shenanigans, too, would be entirely unnecessary if known drugs were legal and regulated, and people could take controlled risks instead of playing Russian roulette with newly synthesized drugs.

Or maybe people just shouldn't take drugs.

I am still looking for arguments I agree with that would argue to keep illegal drugs illegal for any adult. I have not found any positions yet that outweigh my belief that adults ought to be allowed to take responsibility for their own actions.

Likewise, putting myself in this driver's seat, an overdose on my part is my own fault: If I chose to gamble in such a fashion, it does not seem fair that medical staff should have to labor over rescuing me. I made a decision, it only seems fair that I abide by the consequences. Assuming I had not previously entered into a contractual agreement that was pre-financed, an insurance of sorts, premiums paid up, expectations laid out (DNI/DNR, etc.).

I guess the rub would be if the dosage was administered to me without my consent, or a substance included (cut in) that I did not authorize...

With the same preface, this would logically extend to some other "for your own good or the lesser financial burden on others" laws, possibly like helmet laws.

I get the overall feeling that we have short-circuited the benefits of natural selection/survival of the fittest/most able to adapt. Which probably explains my enjoyment of the Darwin Awards books...

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