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Google to close engineering office in Russia

reuters.com

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Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#241

Post by jazzyk »

minimax wrote: post #137
jazzyk wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using the exact "reasoning"/propaganda that communist regimes used in Eastern Europe in the past. EVERY dissident who fled to a Western country was automatically labeled a spy.

If you were an Eastern European person who made it into West Berlin with thousands of secret Soviet intelligence documents in the 1960s, then you probably were a spy.

Some were, some were not (I grew up there). Also, while some spies are money-motivated, most spies from Eastern Europe were simply fed-up with the system.

We will never know for sure, but did you watch "Citizen4"? A closer look at Snowden - IMO, it's highly unlikely that he was a spy. It is clear (to me, at least) that he is highly principled, not money-driven. He'd have to be an extremely good actor.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#242

Post by ahomescu1 »

yuncun wrote: post #223
notjackma wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founder of Huawei was in the PLA, and this is often used to bash the company. Why is it ok to serve country A, B, C and then go into business... but if you serve country X,Y,Z you're suddenly untrustworthy? What next? Make business decisions based upon the sexual preferences of the CEO?

McDonald’s CEO, James Skinner, is interesting. I like their chicken mcNuggets, but I am always aware that their CEO is US-Navy trained, and maintains a good relation with armed forces. Seriously though, everybody was China is PLA - it doesn't mean anything. Back in the day, PLA is one of the few ways to get an education and not be a farmer.

> McDonald’s CEO, James Skinner, is interesting. I like their chicken mcNuggets, but I am always aware that their CEO is US-Navy trained, and maintains a good relation with armed forces.

I think that's a different discussion. I can't imagine any way that McD's would spy on/hurt us thru McNuggets (except maybe food poisoning), whereas they can thru software/Internet companies.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#243

Post by osipov »

unprepare wrote: post #208
osipov wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you have kids but I do. I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. In fact, I don't event want my kids to see a blurred photo of Kim Kardashian's naked butt on TV. There is zero prejudice in this value statement. And most parents agree with my position. When my kids are adults they can decide about sexual relationships for themselves. Until then I dec…

Does the law block speaking to kids about ALL sexual orientations, or just 'non traditional'? you're point is completely irrelevant to the discussion. this is about discrimination against homosexuality. But I'll address it anyways: >I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. Good for you, luckily as a parent you have the ability to make those decisions for your kids.…

Choose your words carefully, the law blocks _propaganda_ not speaking; of _"sexual relations"_ not sexual orientations. Translated from Russian to English, "sexual relations" refers to non traditional parental units, i.e. those that do not consist of a male + female. You may see here a discrimination against homosexuality but I see a legal framework for protection of a traditional family. LGBT individuals still have rights in this framework.

With respect to your anti-vaccine example. There is always a conflict between something that a minority may consider a right and the rule of the majority. There are minorities that want pedophilia to be made legal. Do you have a novel solution for the minority rights conflict? Traditionally rights for minorities have been won through struggle, societal change, and war among many other ways. Are you proposing a novel solution for LGBT rights in Russia?

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#244

Post by Chronic29 »

notjackma wrote: post #231
a_c_s wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has neither free speech nor free elections. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25299116 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/30/russia.politics

China has none of the above and is now the world's largest economy. Doesn't seem to be an impediment to doing business, does it? http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-america-is-now...

Wait a little longer. The sample size (in years) for China is too small. The people are starting to fight the government if you haven't noticed.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#245

Post by krick »

a_c_s wrote: post #203
notjackma wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why discriminate against a Russian company over something that may or may not happen? Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there. As the article states, Google is moving its engineers but the sales team is staying, so this reorganization is less to do with politics and more to do with Google centralizing its engineers in Zurich - just l…

Russia has neither free speech nor free elections. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25299116 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/30/russia.politics

For that matter, I doubt any country has free speech or free elections. Some countries only are better in making citizens believe in opposite than others.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#246

Post by supergirl »

bad_user wrote: post #133
osipov wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very myopic view and here's why -- virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis and the civilian unrest that it provokes. For example, replace Putin in your sentence and you'll get "United States is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to it power". You can support that statement with facts about police in…

I'm a Romanian, a country that's pretty close to Russia and I am one that suffers for what the Ukrainians are going through with Russia, because I can see how the same thing could happen in Basarabia (Moldova) and there are already signs of that. Russia historically has been occupying territories, getting rid of any political dissent by effectively killing or deporting people, while crushing their national identity.…

And what makes you think US would have treated Romania better? Please read more about history. Your ignorance is common. For every bad thing Russia did there is an equally bad thing US did. Same goes for any other 2 countries. It's everyone for himself.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#247

Post by osipov »

unprepare wrote: post #227
osipov wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? This is Brian. I've met him: https://www.youtube.com/user/DiversitySpectrum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTS4ZASCo_0&list=UUsd-fzq2Mj... Brian is gay btw.

hmm a couple 5 year old youtube videos, not very convincing lets dig deeper joined twitter in 2009 but his first tweet was this january, 2 tweets ever - oh and the tweet was this article, apparently the only this thing "journalist" has ever written(and its not even journalism? its a whitepaper) diversity spectrum eh? lets check them out nothing but their own website comes up on a web search (diversityspectrum.org), b…

>an incredible media talent

your assessment, not his. where is your footprint on the internet?

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#248

Post by xxxyy »

danmaz74 wrote: post #168
osipov wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very myopic view and here's why -- virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis and the civilian unrest that it provokes. For example, replace Putin in your sentence and you'll get "United States is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to it power". You can support that statement with facts about police in…

Look, I've been to Russia, I know people there, and there is NO WAY you can compare the level of democracy and rule of law we have in western Europe or the US to what there is in Russia now. Lots of Russians were ready to exchange some of their freedom, and to accept a very high level of corruption, as long as their global living standards improved. But now Putin is violating that pact. We'll see what happens.

Stalin was loved by most of the Russians. There were more tears cried over his death than over Kim Jong-il's, and to this day many Russians keep Stalin's pictures in their homes.

I believe that the West underestimates the strength of the Russian people, and their unsatisfied dreams of becoming the world superpower. Sadly, I think that this "violation of the pact" you are writing about is not serious enough to cause a change of power. And even if it was - who should continue ruling Russia? There are no direct candidates, but also I see no long-term perspectives. New democracies that formed after USSR collapse were built upon pre-war traditions. Russia has never seen any democracy.

I know that there are many Russians that disagree with their government. I know there are many in jail because of their opinions. But this is a minority. For the average Russian Putin is still the guy.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#249

Post by fidotron »

notjackma wrote: post #233
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there In the U.S. I can sign a contract with a private party–or even with the government–and reasonably expect (a) that the terms will be complied with or (b) if they are not, to have reasonable options for compelling performance or collecting damages. In Somalia, on the other hand, a contract is m…

Don't they say the same thing about China and it's rule of law, or lack of? Yet Western businesses flock there. If I were an investor and an entrepreneur gave me all these reasons for not entering the Russian or Chinese market, as well as refusing to do business with companies from these countries, I would quickly show them the door.

China has improved governance fairly rapidly. Sadly, I think it's clear Russia have regressed badly.

A good example of the Chinese situation is AMSC: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-19/china-supreme-court...

Now, the situation shouldn't have arisen, but as the CEO has observed people thought merely trying to get the Chinese court system to go along with them was nuts. In Russia this would be game over already.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#250

Post by dmytrish »

sologoub wrote: post #179
bad_user wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Romanian, a country that's pretty close to Russia and I am one that suffers for what the Ukrainians are going through with Russia, because I can see how the same thing could happen in Basarabia (Moldova) and there are already signs of that. Russia historically has been occupying territories, getting rid of any political dissent by effectively killing or deporting people, while crushing their national identity.…

The politics and history there is much more complicated! I strongly believe that any country put in a position of power will expand the control by any means necessary. Your own history is far from flawless: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre . That said, I strongly doubt Russia has any interest in Moldova or Romania. Putin lost a figurehead in Yanukovich and grabbed what he could out of the ensuing m…

There are evidences that Crimea annexation had been prepared for few years before any unrests. There are photos of paramilitary people with Donetsk "People Republic" flags at Russian summer camp Seliger in 2009. Relentless Russian propaganda has been translated all over Eastern Ukraine and Crimea for ten years.

Don't get me started on "Putin did not start what happened in Ukraine".

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