Google News to shut down in Spain • Hacker News Board

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#251

Post by antr » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

JetSpiegel wrote: post #234

antr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now, to you, 3.5% is "Most of the wasted money"... 3.5% is no economic pressure compared to the cost of running oversized Government structures. Back in the 80's when cost of capital for these Governments was in the 10%-15% no one really complained. Can you cite the source where "countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment" and "while the smaller countries are forced into signing treaties that forb…

> countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment EU finance ministers reject the European Commission’s recommendation to initiate sanctions proceedings against France and Germany for flouting the Stability and Growth Pact’s rules. http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/economic_governance/time... > smaller countries are forced into signing treaties that forbid public investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

- I'm still waiting for the specific examples, the europa.eu link doesn't show any information you mention. Again I quote you "countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment", none of that is mentioned in the website you refer to.

- The "European Fiscal Compact" doesn't forbid public investment. Feel free to point me to the clause in question.

- And finally:

> a small bank with a market share of 2% that required upwards of 5 billion euros of taxpayer's money

What has market share got to do with the size of the capital requirements? Lehman Brother had 0% US retail banking market share, and yet the capital requirement was well above many of the largest retail US banks. You are mixing two completely independent variables! You are mixing capital structure with a vanity metric which is market share... it's mind boggling.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#252

Post by hrayr » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

anon4 wrote: post #249

So how is what google news is doing not piracy? I mean, we also have Peter Sunde's post about his ideals on the front page https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8734204 and a large portion of comments seem to be very pro-copyright. How come then, that nobody here is applauding this move? Google news is absolutely breaking copyright - they're publishing others' content without their permission and without paying them.…

Mainly because your comment: "...they're publishing others' content without their permission and without paying them." is false. The publications can choose to add or remove themselves from google news, meaning google has permission. Also because google news points to the publications and does not re-publish in whole.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#253

Post by _up » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #225

muyuu wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main media in Spain will start hosting sites abroad to bypass this law. This law is basically a way to hinder smaller media more than collecting money from Google, and in this respect I guess it will work.

I dunno. How hard is it to host a site abroad? I know very little about Spain situation, but even then I'd guess that it's easier than hosting it in Spain. Smaller media can certainly do that.

I am pretty sure it is not about where you host, but where your company sits. And courts won't only look at where you are incorporated, but will look where they think the executive descisions are done.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#254

Post by youssifa » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 8:24 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #87

youssifa wrote: post #55

May not necessarily be a popular opinion on here, but I'll state it anyway: Google may not directly profit from Google News, but they still manage to extract value from it. We exist in a top-heavy paradigm where giant servers profiteer off the work of everybody else, capturing a disproportionate percentage of the total value created. It's unfortunate but not unexpected that Google's response is this snarky blog post.…

I disagree. The simple fact that a business benefits off another's hard work does not nessecary deprive the worker of their income. Economics is not zero-sum. Google News drives traffic to news sites that would otherwise be isolated to local communities. If anything, Google levels the playing field, allowing any nearby local news to catch as much traffic as the BBC or NYT. So to complain that Google is profiteering s…

I didn't mean to make the point "that a business benefits off another's hard work does not nessecary deprive the worker of their income". Sorry, I guess it was lost in translation somehow. My point is that Google profits disproportionately off the work of others relative to the value it creates, and that its network effects tip the scales towards a more top-heavy, power law distribution that's not sustainable in the long-term under the guise of "openness" because, hey, we get everything for free. And that this is propogated as "free" and "open" when in reality it just represents a shift in who controls what.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#255

Post by JetSpiegel » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 8:46 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #251

JetSpiegel wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment EU finance ministers reject the European Commission’s recommendation to initiate sanctions proceedings against France and Germany for flouting the Stability and Growth Pact’s rules. http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/economic_governance/time... > smaller countries are forced into signing treaties that forbid public investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

- I'm still waiting for the specific examples, the europa.eu link doesn't show any information you mention. Again I quote you "countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment", none of that is mentioned in the website you refer to. - The "European Fiscal Compact" doesn't forbid public investment. Feel free to point me to the clause in question. - And finally: > a small bank with a market share of 2% that…

The specific example are right there, Germany and France were the first countries to break the treaty and they got away scott-free.

The Compact doesn't forbid public investment per-se, but the goals it sets, combined with the current situation of some countries makes any policy other than maximum austerity unfeasable. If we can't even decide how to pay our own loans, the government turns into a bunch of bureaucrats with no real power, might as well be annexed by the loan sharks.

Market Share in commercial bank should provide a metric to the size of the bank in relation to the entire financial system. It's the whole base of the "too big to fail" ethos.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#256

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 9:19 PM UTC

carlesfe wrote: post #149

I wrote a bit about this in July, when the law was passed, if you want an opinion from a Spaniard: http://cfenollosa.com/blog/spanish-media-just-shot-themselve... Let's summarize what is happening here: Big media editors AEDE, most of which pro-government, in collusion with the corrupt Spanish politicians have managed a masterstroke which they think will: 1. Get them free money 2. Destroy the discoverability of small…

and how soon before EU wide legislation like this makes it was through the halls in Brussels?

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#257

Post by antr » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 9:30 PM UTC

JetSpiegel wrote: post #255

antr wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I'm still waiting for the specific examples, the europa.eu link doesn't show any information you mention. Again I quote you "countries ignored the deficit limits to increase investment", none of that is mentioned in the website you refer to. - The "European Fiscal Compact" doesn't forbid public investment. Feel free to point me to the clause in question. - And finally: > a small bank with a market share of 2% that…

The specific example are right there, Germany and France were the first countries to break the treaty and they got away scott-free. The Compact doesn't forbid public investment per-se, but the goals it sets, combined with the current situation of some countries makes any policy other than maximum austerity unfeasable. If we can't even decide how to pay our own loans, the government turns into a bunch of bureaucrats w…

This is getting ridiculous, you are digging yourself into a hole.

No, in the specific link there is no mention of "ignored the deficit limits to increase investment in their economies had no sanctions". Your words, not mine.

Ok, so we can agree that "smaller countries are forced into signing treaties that forbid public investment" is a false statement.

Again, you are mixing the vanity metric of market share with capital structure. What do you define as "market share"? Is it volume of deposits, assets on the balance sheets, assets under management, number of employees, number of clients? What market share are you referring too? Your "market share" argument is like saying that your javascript doesn't work because your company doesn't have enough Facebook likes... Haven't you ever heard of the Basel Accords?! I can't believe I'm reading your comments on Hacker News.

Before I give up on this conversation: "Too big to fail" does not refer to market size. It refers to the entities that systemically affect risk with one another, and it includes institutions that are non-depository in the financial system... unlike the Portuguese banks you mentioned. It's really frustrating to read comments like yours on Hacker News, based on loose buzz words, but empty in substance.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#258

Post by lazylizard » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 2:11 AM UTC

antr wrote: post #237

lazylizard wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

about collecting taxes to pay for stuff..isn't it far easier to print new money than to collect old money back?

Not the best solution[0] but it's what happened[1]. [0] http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-hyperinflation-episodes... [1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/ecb-prints-money-...

thats printing plus taxing..and over doing the printing part? why not print as much as one would ordinarily tax? saves the trouble of employing 100s of 1000s of people to do the tax paperwork.. and inflation is in effect a wealth tax anyway...

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#259

Post by eru » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 2:27 AM UTC

sparkzilla wrote: post #155

eru wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try to fork Wikipedia. The content is all available, all you need is a bunch of servers; then you can convince the contributors to come over.

I don't think it is possible to make "the next Wikipedia" from a fork. It's easier and cheaper to remake the data so that it works right from the get go. Best to start fresh. If the data is better then the contributors will come over anyway.

> It's easier and cheaper to remake the data so that it works right from the get go.

Could you please explain? I don't understand how the data (ie all the articles) would weigh one down.

Wikipedia as an organization has some cultural issues that one might want to fix. I don't really see a problem with the data that would warrant starting from scratch. (Starting from scratch might be necessary to fix the culture. But that's another argument to make.)

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#260

Post by adventured » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 2:31 AM UTC

ddebernardy wrote: post #125

adventured wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American I watch Europe pretty closely, and I've seen some things that are worrisome such as increasing amounts of fascism (anti-freedom / anti-privacy)... but, things seem to be getting pretty freaky almost everywhere, freedom seems to be on the retreat globally. For Spain, speaking sociologically, how long can an advanced country have 30%-35% real unemployment, before there are severely destabilizing effects…

> As an American I watch Europe pretty closely, and I've seen some things that are worrisome such as increasing amounts of fascism (anti-freedom / anti-privacy)... As a European who watches the US, I hope the irony of your statement has not escaped you. The NSA, the Can-Spam act, the TSA, Guantanamo Bay, how Obama gave a kill order on a US citizen without due process, how the hardline christian right and hardline lib…

"As a European who watches the US, I hope the irony of your statement has not escaped you."

There's no irony in fact. I didn't claim the US condition was X Y or Z.

There's nothing ironic about a heart disease patient pointing out the condition of another heart disease patient. Nor does pointing such out, imply that the observer is lacking of heart disease.

Your reach is a failure of the application of logic. Just because I note that Europe has X problem, that does not mean I automatically think the US is lacking in X problem. Your response was emotional, the classic need to point out another's flaws because your flaws were pointed out. I get that.

I don't get my European news from Fox or CNN. And I pay close attention to the economic data coming from just about every country in Europe. I'd argue I'm likely better versed on the economics of most every country in Europe than most Europeans.