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Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

wired.co.uk

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Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#131

Post by izolate »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #84
tomp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft is a concept that originates from our definition of "property". I oppose the legal definition that copyright == property; I agree that a reasonably short copyright term can encourage the creation of art, but what we have now is outrageous and I don't think the trade-off makes sense for the public.

>> "I oppose the legal definition that copyright == property" How about a definition like - "If I create something, I own it and have the right to profit from it." Why should my right to profit from what I create have a limited term? Why should it be ok for someone to copy it just because they have the ability to?

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

You are not born in isolation from the rest of us. Everything you create originated from an idea that you learned from somebody else. You have no right of ownership over something that is not entirely yours.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#132

Post by [deleted] »

solarc wrote: post #30
phillc73 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole argument disappoints me. Every manufacturer of a DVD or CD Writer has "enabled" illegal copying and potential distribution of copyrighted content. I haven't seen any of those entities reprimanded for their product manufacture.

There's a tax in some countries over blank CD/DVD exactly for that reason, enabling illegal copying. It is a crazy world, anything is possible. Edit: found a link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

[deleted]

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#133

Post by lazylizard »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #53
the8472 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Pirate Bay isn't some noble cause Consider it as a litmus test for free speech. Providing links to pirated content, not even the content itself, can easily be seen as free speech.

Theft is theft, not free speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling_v._United_States_(1985...

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#134

Post by BerislavLopac »

hackerboos wrote: post #14
tomp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Manning went to jail for revealing government secrets about government crimes. And Snowden cannot return home because he revealed that people are being spied on. It's very easy to say, "he went to jail because what he did was illegal". It's harder to say "he went to jail despite what he did was right". I support TPB's cause. I believe that non-profit sharing of information should be free.

I wouldn't put Sunde in the same category as Snowden and Manning. The Pirate Bay isn't some noble cause like the latter two. It did have a minor effect of disrupting the industry and accelerating the inevitable change in business model for the film and movie industry.

> It did have a minor effect of disrupting the industry and accelerating the inevitable change in business model for the film and movie industry.

So? Why would any individual industry be exempt from disruption?

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#135

Post by amalcon »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #84
tomp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft is a concept that originates from our definition of "property". I oppose the legal definition that copyright == property; I agree that a reasonably short copyright term can encourage the creation of art, but what we have now is outrageous and I don't think the trade-off makes sense for the public.

>> "I oppose the legal definition that copyright == property" How about a definition like - "If I create something, I own it and have the right to profit from it." Why should my right to profit from what I create have a limited term? Why should it be ok for someone to copy it just because they have the ability to?

Why should you have that right in the first place?

Note that I agree that you should (or, rather, that as a society we should make sure that it's possible under reasonable conditions), but my reason for agreement is not able to justify perpetual copyright.

My reasoning happens to be similar to what the U.S. Constitution says, but I can imagine others having different reasoning for the same idea.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#136

Post by egocodedinsol »

karmacondon wrote: post #43

Many don't agree with the principles of TPB, but Sunde was willing to take risks for what he believed in. He deserves a lot of respect for that no matter what people think about the morality of what he helped to create. Most people go their whole lives without caring strongly about any issue at all, and almost all of those that do care are willing to sacrifice exactly nothing. I'd like to think that I would be willin…

fwiw, he might concede that illegal downloads are theft, but assert that digital property is also theft. In that case, I could see TPB defending those goals, or at least attacking their opposition.

(not an endorsement just pointing it out, blah blah blah)

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#137

Post by agmcleod »

karmacondon wrote: post #43

Many don't agree with the principles of TPB, but Sunde was willing to take risks for what he believed in. He deserves a lot of respect for that no matter what people think about the morality of what he helped to create. Most people go their whole lives without caring strongly about any issue at all, and almost all of those that do care are willing to sacrifice exactly nothing. I'd like to think that I would be willin…

So, so agreed.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#138

Post by clarry »

gambiting wrote: post #94
sangnoir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your opinion of the people who shared the DeCSS key? If "46DCEAD317FE45D80923EB97E4956410D4CDB2C2" is free speech, so is a magnet URI

Let's say you wrote a book and writing books is your only means of putting food on the table - and then one day you sit next to someone on the train who is reading a scanned copy of your book on their tablet. You ask them about it, and they say "yeah I don't buy books really, I downloaded this off torrents". Sure, the book they have is not "stolen" per se, but would you personally not feel like someone "stole" at lea…

> would you personally not feel like someone "stole" at least some of your work from you?

Absolutely not. If anything, I would be flattered to meet somebody actually reading my book, and I'd probably be eager to have a chat with him, maybe ask for opinions and perhaps tell him about other books I'm working on, if it looks like he could be interested. That'd be an event that could make me very happy.

The reality is that nobody seems to be interested in what I do. Should I feel I'm being treated unfair by all the people in the train who never bought and never used my stuff? Never even heard of me?

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#139

Post by the8472 »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #125
icebraining wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still confusing "freedom to share" with "obligation to share". Being for the free sharing of information and choosing to not publish some stuff is completely coherent. Nobody says copyright holders should be forced to publish their works.

So you support spreading the hacked nude photos of celebs? Once someone obtains a copy they should be free to share? And "Nobody says copyright holders should be forced to publish their works." should be a warning flag to you. Once you get to a position that twisty, you should think to yourself there's probably something wrong with it.

Those celeb photos do not need copyright to be protected from distribution. They need the right to privacy, because that's what's being harmed there.

Copyright just gets used as a tool for takedown because commercial interests have driven the law to make it a much sharper and more immediately applicable tool than privacy laws.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#140

Post by jimktrains2 »

gedrap wrote: post #99
tomp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Manning went to jail for revealing government secrets about government crimes. And Snowden cannot return home because he revealed that people are being spied on. It's very easy to say, "he went to jail because what he did was illegal". It's harder to say "he went to jail despite what he did was right". I support TPB's cause. I believe that non-profit sharing of information should be free.

>>> sharing of information But what TPB mainly distributed, was not information, it was products. And they are not essential products, you can live just fine without TV series or movies. People don't die because they can't play their favourite video game. It's like saying designer clothes should be free. Information should be shared without profit, yeah, that's what wikipedia is doing fine. But video games are not in…

> But what TPB mainly distributed, was not information, it was products.

It did no such thing. It provided a searchable list of user-generated content. It was no different than hacker news or reddit. It was used in a fashion that facilitated "crimes", but so are computers, Internet, and cash in general.

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