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Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

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Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#101

Post by spiralpolitik »

rancur wrote: post #62
jwcooper wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, it's likely much more expensive to code native apps than it is to just build an html/css/js app using chrome with a lot of the heavy lifting already done for you (at the expense of increased resource consumption). A lot of these apps wouldn't exist if they couldn't have been built quickly and cheaply.

well, we're hitting process node limits (5, maybe 4nm) in 10 years so I think we better stop it. http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/file... You see those little dots? Those are individual silicon atoms from one of a few fins in the gate on Intel's 22nm node. Also, I Am A C Programmer. I Think Everything Should Be Written In C. C Is Close To The Hardware And Is Faster And Use Less Resource Compare…

If we do hit process limits on process node limits, we'll start going massively parallel, it which case you still won't be using C to program your 10000 processor machine.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#102

Post by rancur »

spiralpolitik wrote: post #101
rancur wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, we're hitting process node limits (5, maybe 4nm) in 10 years so I think we better stop it. http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/file... You see those little dots? Those are individual silicon atoms from one of a few fins in the gate on Intel's 22nm node. Also, I Am A C Programmer. I Think Everything Should Be Written In C. C Is Close To The Hardware And Is Faster And Use Less Resource Compare…

If we do hit process limits on process node limits, we'll start going massively parallel, it which case you still won't be using C to program your 10000 processor machine.

or neural. having precise answers is so 20th century.

"probably right" is probably enough.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#103

Post by rancur »

blt wrote: post #80
rancur wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, we're hitting process node limits (5, maybe 4nm) in 10 years so I think we better stop it. http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/file... You see those little dots? Those are individual silicon atoms from one of a few fins in the gate on Intel's 22nm node. Also, I Am A C Programmer. I Think Everything Should Be Written In C. C Is Close To The Hardware And Is Faster And Use Less Resource Compare…

I'm with you. I'm a "mechanically sympathetic" anomaly amongst my age group and even many of my senior colleagues who came up in the 90s when Moore's Law == clock speed. My whining about cache thrashing and branch mispredictions might fall on deaf ears now, but I'll be ready to fix all the slow-ass code when people realize that silicon atoms aren't getting any smaller and heat isn't getting any less hot.

you have my approval :) I've been toying with the notion of continuing to focus on embedded C since most of the Computer Science d00ds I've worked with have no clue how things work "what? the runtime takes care of it" besides O-notation.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#104

Post by welly »

joev_ wrote: post #89
k00pa wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But with the advent of 8-16+ GB of ram in consumer computers can we really say 2-3GB for windows rendering is heavy? This attitude is why we have phones with 1G of memory and 1Ghz+ CPU's lagging when just trying to read email. Yes, there is more memory available than before, but that doesn't mean we should just waste it for useless stuff. For example if we eat 2-3GB of memory on a system with 8GB of memory, thats o…

> Yes, there is more memory available than before, but that doesn't mean we should just waste it for useless stuff. I disagree. I think the point is that it's not useless, by its own existence. It saves dev time (which allows more - and better! - programs to be built), it allows richer features and interactions, it lowers the barrier to entry for maintenance work, and most of all prevents constant re-inventing/implem…

Isn't inefficient coding, which is what we're discussing really, possibly needlessly forcing the specifications of hardware to be more and more powerful rather than getting the best out of the hardware we have now by better coding?

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#105

Post by Danieru »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #82
tracker1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, Windows 8, Gnome, Unity and others offer desktop html+javascript compositing with support for webservice calls. Some may be more powerful/limited, but it's something already being done. Even in a thread earlier today there was a post about the state of desktop web apps... node-webkit and atom-shell aren't bad options either. I always wanted to like XUL, but a shell mode for HTML+JS that can have more control o…

Game Dev Tycoon is a neat example of this. It started as a Windows 8 game developed with VS Express (using JavaScript), then it became it's own thing on Steam, not sure if they use node-webkit or what, I can't remember, but it runs smoothly on Linux and other platforms as a result.

Game Dev Tycoon does use node-webkit. They also developed the Steam integration library for node-webkit: https://github.com/greenheartgames/greenworks

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#107

Post by Elv13 »

barkingcat wrote: post #60
recursive wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've often wondered why OS's just don't host browser render engines internally and draw their UI with that. I believe Windows 8 can do this.

Didn't Windows use to do this until they got dinged by the anti-trust suit? MSFT had to spend a lot of engineering time decoupling IE from being a critical component in rendering basic file explorer views

And the "active" Windows desktop itself (as part of explorer.exe) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Desktop

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#108

Post by epa »

cptskippy wrote: post #99
rancur wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, we're hitting process node limits (5, maybe 4nm) in 10 years so I think we better stop it. http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/file... You see those little dots? Those are individual silicon atoms from one of a few fins in the gate on Intel's 22nm node. Also, I Am A C Programmer. I Think Everything Should Be Written In C. C Is Close To The Hardware And Is Faster And Use Less Resource Compare…

Congratulations, I thought I'd managed to go a whole year without hearing about process limits and the grim future we face. Seriously, every 6 months or so for the last 15 years or more there is an article published explaining the end of the PC revolution. Google the terms "end of silicon" or "end of moore's law" and add a custom date range like 1998-1999 and you'll get dozens if not hundreds of articles from reputab…

Excellent analysis

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#109

Post by donniezazen »

I have been running Firefox for almost a month now. The divide between firefox and Chrome is getting bigger and bigger.

1. What do you guys think about sidebars and multiple toolbars? There is only a limited space available on screens these days for most people. I find them very archaic.

2. Dropdown arrows - I also don't understand the purpose of actually showing that if you click here a menu will open. A folder expands when you click it. There is nothing to be said about it.

3. Lack of overlay icons. There is literally a block with yellow background which shows number.

4. Lack of interest in devs to innovate on Firefox. There is a difference in versions of Evernote webclipper for Firefox and Chrome. Diigo extension is in atrocious condition.

Why do you think a solid browser like Firefox is lagging behind in UI compared to Chrome?

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