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Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

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Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#51

Post by matthewmacleod »

This is a fantastic idea and I'm really glad to see experimentation in this area. It's already great to look at how things like Webkit's dev tools are implemented in HTML and see how that idea might be extended.

At it's core, a browser is an HTML/JS rendering engine with some chrome to allow users to manage what pages they're looking at – and in most cases, that chrome is actually pretty minimal. It seems like a natural evolution to play with the idea of implementing that chrome in the natural UI language of the browser engine too. Yeah, the tools aren't there yet – but experiments like this will give us some scope to play around with what might be possible and identify the pain points that must be overcome to make it a reality.

Great stuff.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#52

Post by taf2 »

This is great. My experience with XML for UI went something like this.

1. build an XML language for abstracting C++ UI MCF or gtk

2. realizing the need for HTML content - embed mozilla/xulrunner

3. realzing xulrunner /mozilla already provide a cross platform toolkit use XUL to build the user interface with xpcomm wrappers

4. realize that HTML is better for user interface, and only write HTML/javascript with xpcomm wrappers.

5. switch to web development completely and avoid desktop apps all together :)

6. from time to time check in on the state of desktop/app development and see if they've finally figured out html is better for interfaces than any interface builder

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#53

Post by valarauca1 »

paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering.

I've often wondered why OS's just don't host browser render engines internally and draw their UI with that.

Well I don't for long, I know HTML is much younger then X. Also browser engines are massive resource hogs. But with the advent of 8-16+ GB of ram in consumer computers can we really say 2-3GB for windows rendering is heavy?

Especially if it offers that much empowerment to developers.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#54

Post by asadotzler »

bkeroack wrote: post #18

I realize this is a personal project, but this is deeply amusing considering that: 1. Way back when (circa 1998-2001?), the Mozilla project started as a radical redesign of the next gen Netscape browser. One of the core principles of the architecture was that the browser itself would render the UI elements (using an HTML-like tech call XUL). 2. The Firefox browser (then called "Phoenix") was a reaction against the ab…

You are wrong. When we started Firefox (before "Phoenix") one of the primary goals was to prove that XUL on Windows could be fast enough and look native enough that no one would care. We succeeded.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#55

Post by mcao »

The one thing that absolutely annoys me about the current Firefox is the location of the refresh button, which is a tiny icon stuck in the far right of the location bar. Worse of all you can't customize it natively. You have to download extensions to change the UI and still you won't get it to look 100% how you want it. Being able to modify a HTML based UI would be awesome.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#56

Post by recursive »

valarauca1 wrote: post #53
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

> I've often wondered why OS's just don't host browser render engines internally and draw their UI with that.

I believe Windows 8 can do this.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#57

Post by kibwen »

alex_duf wrote: post #47
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

Between that, rust and servo, it seems we have a new experimental technology stack shaping for the future of firefox. It may or may not be used in the end, but I'm excited by the potential.

One of Rust's goals for 2015 is to ship a tiny Rust-based component in Firefox (e.g. an image decoder), so we'll find out within the coming year. :)

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#58

Post by rancur »

valarauca1 wrote: post #53
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

no more software layers please! my PC was much faster when my programs were native. Apps rendered with chrome rendered with webkit...8GB used to be enough, then all these "developers" with their "development machines" who think it's no big deal that their Hangouts implementation takes 200MB when Pidgin takes 20.

people used to complain about Firefox hogging memory, I think it's Chrome we should be worried about...

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#59

Post by jwcooper »

rancur wrote: post #58
valarauca1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

no more software layers please! my PC was much faster when my programs were native. Apps rendered with chrome rendered with webkit...8GB used to be enough, then all these "developers" with their "development machines" who think it's no big deal that their Hangouts implementation takes 200MB when Pidgin takes 20. people used to complain about Firefox hogging memory, I think it's Chrome we should be worried about...

At the same time, it's likely much more expensive to code native apps than it is to just build an html/css/js app using chrome with a lot of the heavy lifting already done for you (at the expense of increased resource consumption).

A lot of these apps wouldn't exist if they couldn't have been built quickly and cheaply.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#60

Post by barkingcat »

recursive wrote: post #56
valarauca1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

> I've often wondered why OS's just don't host browser render engines internally and draw their UI with that. I believe Windows 8 can do this.

Didn't Windows use to do this until they got dinged by the anti-trust suit? MSFT had to spend a lot of engineering time decoupling IE from being a critical component in rendering basic file explorer views
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