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Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

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Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#171

Post by shawabawa3 »

encoderer wrote: post #112
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

At Trulia we have an unlimited vacation policy and it really does work for us. People routinely take extended, foreign trips of two or more weeks. This year I will be taking 4 weeks off in total, 2 on proper vacation and one week each with my family and my wife's. So take this as an anecdotal data point. Oh, and come work for Trulia, we need great iOS and Android engineers desperately.

> This year I will be taking 4 weeks off in total

So...basically a standard amount of vacation?

I love the sound of unlimited vacation as a perk, but I'm worried I'd just get fired for "abusing it". I'd probably take something like 10 weeks/year

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#172

Post by billmalarky »

CaveTech wrote: post #9
javery wrote: post #5

We have an unlimited vacation policy at Adzerk and I try to lead by example by taking at least 2-3 weeks off a year (especially in the summer). We also try to encourage everyone to take at least one solid week off a year and it seems to work pretty well. I think that's the real issue with unlimited policy - if the leaders don't take vacation no one else thinks they can.

"At least 2 weeks off". Isn't 2 weeks the bare minimum?

I literally just walked out of an HR meeting where they brought in a lawyer to discuss questions like this and no vacation time is not required by US law (our company has roughly 4 weeks of vacation a year). In NY there is a minimum of 5 sicks days per year for employers with 5 or more employees, but again that isn't technically vacation time.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#173

Post by morgante »

Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

I do think it comes down to culture.

At work (http://cafe.com/careers), we have unlimited vacation that I've definitely been taking advantage of. In addition to not worrying about random days off here and there (which have easily added up to a week or two a year), I'm completely comfortable taking off to Shanghai for a month.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#174

Post by nekopa »

asafira wrote: post #157

As a graduate student, I feel that (at least within my research group) there is this "unlimited time off" policy, but in the end it's not really taken advantage of very much and it certainly doesn't take any stress away from work. Even this holiday season, I'll be taking a week off from work, and I always phrase it as "I promised my mother I'd be home for at least a week". The minimum vacation policy sounds like an i…

I would think that in academia a minimum time off policy would be great: depending on where you are in the project, sometimes stepping away from a problem can lead you to the solution.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#175

Post by toomuchtodo »

ben1040 wrote: post #162
debacle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the company doesn't have to pay you for unused vacation days even if you don't use them. It's pretty much at the discretion of the company.

It depends upon the state. Some states, CA and IL for example, treat vacation as earned and owed, yet unpaid compensation. Because of this, it represents a liability, so it's got to be shown as such on the books. Which is also another reason why you see CA companies adopting "open vacation" policies, it takes that vacation liability off the balance sheet. Other states view vacation as just an agreement between you an…

Not only is vacation time treated as earned and owed in Illinois, the offers of the company can be held personally liable for the funds in the event the company goes out of business and does not pay this out. This applies even if the company is in federal receivership. I know this from first hand experience having worked with the Illinois Labor Board to resolve a matter.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#176

Post by coldcode »

johnward wrote: post #120
izacus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, having 20-25 (almost mandatory) days of per year is implemented by law here in most countries of EU. How is that a "wierd" policy? (By "almost mandatory" I mean that at least here, you must use up your vacation days until end of next year.)

In the US that's weird because the mandatory days off per year are 0. A good amount for most people in the US is 10 days per year (or two weeks). I get 4 weeks which is pretty great but many of the people I work with end up not taking all of those days or taking days and also working on them due to culture. It's ridiculous.

I think the US is the only country with a 0.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#177

Post by gadders »

e40 wrote: post #64
gadders wrote: post #61

As a counterpoint, most investment banks enfore a mandatory 10 working day break where all remote access capabilities are disabled (including blackberries). This is less out of altruism, and more so that any untoward activities can be uncovered whilst the person is out of the office.

This is less out of altruism, and more so that any untoward activities can be uncovered whilst the person is out of the office. I'd love to hear more about that.

That's pretty much it. It's a compliance-type regulation. The idea is that if you were, say, hiding a $3bn loss in an obscure book or something then it is more likely to be discovered if you were out of the office and someone else is trading/covering your books.

You can read an article about it in the WSJ here: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723963904449149045776154... or google for "Take Those Two Weeks Off —Or Else" and click the top link.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#178

Post by coldcode »

jellicle wrote: post #43
liveoneggs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am on vacation next week but am still the primary on-call. I will take pages if I'm available or pass/escalate to the next guy if I'm not. Since I'm on vacation it's understood to be a best effort. Normally I would switch with someone but it's a busy vacation week so we just figure it out. I took a two hour call the morning of thanksgiving, for reference.

> I am on vacation next week but am still the primary on-call. Whatever that is, it isn't vacation.

It's like the difference between vacation and prison. In both case you are away from home.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#179

Post by coldcode »

Ao7bei3s wrote: post #37
javery wrote: post #5

We have an unlimited vacation policy at Adzerk and I try to lead by example by taking at least 2-3 weeks off a year (especially in the summer). We also try to encourage everyone to take at least one solid week off a year and it seems to work pretty well. I think that's the real issue with unlimited policy - if the leaders don't take vacation no one else thinks they can.

Reality check: over here in Germany, the legal minimum is 24 days per year. As a developer, you wouldn't take a contract below 28 days (but you also won't be offered one). 29-30 are common. My previous company allowed an additional ~5 days of unpaid leave, which many took. Sorry, but your 10-15 days are insane.

Contractors in the US generally get 0 days of paid vacation. You either work or you get paid nothing since the contracting agency only makes money if you work.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#180

Post by david927 »

mhurron wrote: post #151
zeidrich wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for many Americans, work is life. You get up, you spend an hour in the commute to work, you spend your 9 hours at work, you spend some more because overtime is expected, you commute home, you watch some reality television and go to bed. At work you have made friends, you spend time browsing the internet, following up on your hobbies, etc. This is where life ends up happening. 8 hours consumed by sleep, or the…

> Contrast that to somewhere like Germany, which is where this article was written. Work days end early. The culture in Germany is not to live at work. Work is for working. You come to do a job, not to have interpersonal relationships with co-workers. Apparently I need to move to Germany because this is exactly how I work and like to work.

It's true for most of the world, actually.
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