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Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

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Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#41

Post by pestaa »

antr wrote: post #31
foolinaround wrote: post #7

What I found to be even more relaxing is if all the employees of a company are forced to take the same time off ( 2 days to a week) and other flexible time off where the employee can choose his own time. Then, there are no email or updates to come back to...

From my point of view, that's the way it should be. At my company we make you take vacations. If by the end of the year you have plenty of days left you tend to take a long christmas/new year's break... and in some exceptions move a couple of vacations days to the next calendar year. The unlimited vacations days, in my eyes, creates considerable pressure/anxiety on workers. If you are in the US and want to treat empl…

Sounds like a mature way to run a business. Where do I sign up?

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#42

Post by laxatives »

padobson wrote: post #27

If I worked somewhere that had an unlimited vacation policy, I think I'd probably stop working on Fridays all together. An unlimited vacation policy could be an open invitation for a 4-day work-week (or 3 day or 2 day...)

We have an unlimited vacation policy and no one has taken more than 20 days off in a calendar year (not including holidays). That being said, I'm at 18 and only started in September.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#43

Post by jellicle »

liveoneggs wrote: post #19
turnip1979 wrote: post #11

Genuine question: how do companies/teams that run services deal with peak vacation periods? E.g. Christmas holidays. Even if everyone wants to take the last two weeks of the year off, you have to have someone keeping the lights on. Also, what happens if a high priority problem comes in? Are the team leads/managers careful not to schedule work around the holidays?

I am on vacation next week but am still the primary on-call. I will take pages if I'm available or pass/escalate to the next guy if I'm not. Since I'm on vacation it's understood to be a best effort. Normally I would switch with someone but it's a busy vacation week so we just figure it out. I took a two hour call the morning of thanksgiving, for reference.

> I am on vacation next week but am still the primary on-call.

Whatever that is, it isn't vacation.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#44

Post by awjr »

jbb555 wrote: post #33

very good. Except "now has a required minimum of 25 (paid) vacation days per year, no matter what country they live in." Well no. If they live in the UK for example they have a mandatory limit of 28 days not 25 because it's the law.

I think you are talking about 25 days they can choose. In the UK you have 8 days that are Bank Holidays and National holidays. So this is a 33 day holiday policy.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#45

Post by byoung2 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

A lot of these "unlimited" places have a "as long as your work gets done" policy, meaning you can take tons of short days off or afternoons off, but almost no extended holidays (e.g. travel abroad, out of state, etc).

My friend works at a company with unlimited vacation and they pay you $1000 for every full week you take off.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#46

Post by robzyb »

stephen_g wrote: post #29
sportanova wrote: post #2

Of course the other reason for 'unlimited vacation' is so when an employee leaves, the company doesn't have to pay them for unused vacation days. Huge red flag when a company has 'unlimited vacation'

It's sad that works in the US. Here in Australia you have to give a full time employee a minimum of four weeks (paid), which accrues if unused. So somebody at a company with unlimited vacation would be no worse off of they never took holidays than someone who worked at a company with the regular 4 weeks.

I'm an Australian living in Japan. I moved here 2 months ago.

Most Japanese get around 3 weeks of annual leave per year - but each day expires after 24 months.

It is quite common for leave to expire.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#47

Post by gtCameron »

debacle wrote: post #40
sportanova wrote: post #2

Of course the other reason for 'unlimited vacation' is so when an employee leaves, the company doesn't have to pay them for unused vacation days. Huge red flag when a company has 'unlimited vacation'

IIRC, the company doesn't have to pay you for unused vacation days even if you don't use them. It's pretty much at the discretion of the company.

It depends on the State the employee lives in

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#48

Post by delluminatus »

Someone1234 wrote: post #30

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical. If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!"). Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless. According to this…

I'm curious to read about what it means to "de-stress" from work but I think you forgot the [1] citation.

Maybe this is not common, but if I worked at a company with "unlimited vacation", I would definitely take extended vacations occasionally. I think as long as you timed them appropriately and gave advance notice, you could easily take a week or more off.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#49

Post by ngmaloney »

I jokingly refer to Unlimited Vacation Policy as Guilt Driven Vacation Policy. IMHO, it is a sham so companies don't have to take liability for accrued vacation time on their books. While I commend Travis for coming up with a workable solution wouldn't it be easier to just say: "Everyone has 4 weeks vacation, use them!".

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#50

Post by chton »

"We tried something that didn't fit our culture, and it didn't work."

Taking less vacation time is not necessarily a bad thing. For myself, not having to meet a minimum quota means I enjoy the vacations I do take more, since I take them when I need and want instead of mandatory ones. It means, as long as I'm feeling good, I can keep the momentum up.

The bigger problems is that employees didn't respect others' vacation time. Or their own, for that matter. That is a cultural problem, and a change in vacation policy won't help (much). If you want the people in your company to be happier with their time off, work on respecting it.

  "The guilt of taking time off takes over, and you "just check in" or promise to be available if anything comes up."
That is, to me, a sign of an unhealthy culture. Fix that before trying yet another vacation experiment.
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