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Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

reuters.com

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Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#21

Post by RealGeek »

pyrois wrote: post #18
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

I don't quite understand the wording on the website. The article said the driver was acquitted; would a proper screening still have disqualified him, given his acquittal? Quick disclaimer: clearly, given what you said, Uber needs to dramatically change how it operates in India, and thorough background checks are hugely important for a commercial transport service. I'm just wondering if it would have been enough to pr…

If Uber didn't hire this driver, this crime could have been prevented.

Delhi laws require all cabs to have an onboard GPS: "The vehicle must be fitted with GPS/GPRS based tracking devises which must be in constant communication with the Central Control unit while the vehicles is on duty."

Uber didn't even have an on-board always on GPS, their only way to track is through mobile app; which the driver conveniently turned off.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#23

Post by laichzeit0 »

GrinningFool wrote: post #17
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

There really ought be no two minds about this. If he was acquitted and you don't give him a job soley because of that fact it would be unfair discrimination.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#24

Post by TheHypnotist »

atonse wrote: post #12
TheHypnotist wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's also not as if these sexual assault cases are not well documented already. I wonder what Uber will say about this.

So what then, an Uber customer would have to just say "yeah ok rapes happen so let me keep taking Uber"? The point is, Uber is claiming to be better than cabbies in that they screen drivers, etc. Clearly they aren't doing anything of the sort. So they are as unsafe as taking any other cab.

Well, as it's been pointed out there is a stronger underlying issue as to Uber's ban than simply a rape. But I don't really understand your point anyway.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#25

Post by dietrichepp »

GrinningFool wrote: post #17
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

> The other side of that an accusation or suspicion isn't a reasonable basis on which to ruin someone's employability.

It should be specific to the job. If it's a sexual offense, maybe they shouldn't hire you as a taxi driver / school counselor / other jobs that give you easy access to victims. Just like they shouldn't hire you as a cashier if you're suspected of check fraud.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#26

Post by kyledrake »

GrinningFool wrote: post #17
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

While I would often usually with you, the nature of sexual assault is that even in "developed" countries, it is very hard to convict people for committing these offenses, and very often the accused walk. I can only imagine how much worse this is in countries that are less than friendly to women (I am not saying that India is better or worse, I don't know).

I don't think it would have hurt them to err on the side of caution on this one. It's certainly possible that their background check simply was unable to see this information, but given the pattern Uber seems to be building for themselves here, it would be really hard for me to believe their explanation of what happened anyways.

Throw the other problems away: this is the actual problem at Uber. The fatal flaw Uber continues to make is that they fail to build trust, which brings their activities into question every time something like this happens. At this rate, it's just going to keep getting worse.

I actually can't believe the board hasn't taken any action here. I've never in my life seen a startup more in need of a board intervention.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#27

Post by yummyfajitas »

RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

Very true. If the Indian government were to shut down modes of transportation because of drivers engaging in rape, then you'd never see a rickshaw on the streets.

http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/woman-gangra...

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/delhi-13-year-old-girl-al...

I've spoken with one woman since this incident. She stills considers radio cabs (taxi4sure, specifically) safer than rickshaws or flagged cabs (i.e., flagging a taxi rather than using an app).

It's rather unlikely that banning Uber will do much. I suspect that a Beretta in every purse is the only real solution, but it's also a solution that the government will never support. Only rich people and jewelry stores deserve to be protected by guns.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#28

Post by RealGeek »

GrinningFool wrote: post #17
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

> The other side of that an accusation or suspicion isn't a reasonable basis on which to ruin someone's employability.

Would you marry or co-found a company with someone who was charged with a crime like murder, rape, robbery or fraud; but was let go after serving 7 months in prison because of insufficient evidence which could not meet the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt".

Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard to convict (even in US) because police & prosecutors does not take rape investigations seriously.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#29

Post by plinkplonk »

Fwiw the story is still unfolding. Some parts of the media are reporting that the driver had a "character certificate" from an Assistant Police Commissioner. It is unclear (as of writing this) how legally valid (or even genuine) that is. Could be photoshopped for all we know. (the media can be quite incompetent and report rumors as truth and vice versa)

Fwiw http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-police-h...

This is in someways the direct opposite of what the media was reporting so far. It will all shake out in the coming days/weeks.

Meanwhile Uber remains banned in Delhi (imo a good thing. The management is pretty scummy and they and Uber's operating procedures could use some sunlight). The government and the police will come under massive media scrutiny (imo, even better.)

It is now a full fledged media circus here, with politicians posturing,citizens screaming, parties of different ideologies protesting etc. Elections are due in Delhi in February, and safety (or lack of it) for women in Delhi is an issue that voters pay attention to, so the above is all par for the course. Again,just fwiw.

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