Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades • Hacker News Board

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#41

Post by ikonst » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 3:01 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #38

ikonst wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mixing up Gaza and the West Bank. What Israel (and Egypt) are doing is - 1) blockading Gaza, 2) entering armed conflicts with the Hamas with high human casualties and vast damage to infrastructure Israel is not occupying Gaza. All settlements in the Gaza strip were dismantled in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza The Israeli military absolutely does not enter Gaza frivolously as…

I don't think the situations in Gaza and the West Bank can be treated as individual and isolated, though. Israeli oppression and annexation (confiscation) of West Bank territory breeds resentment and hatred among all Palestineans, though, and with good reason. I have never seen a good argument for why this policy should be in place. If you forcibly take away people's property and livelihood, of course they will want…

Well, Israeli actions can breed hatred amongst Jordanians or Egyptians as well, or amongst latte-drinking hipsters in Berkeley for that matter. It's a bit of a stretch to tie this to the people's welfare, that's all I'm saying. The blockade and limitations on peoples' movement actually affects people.

The tirades about Israel on popular television (of any arab-speaking country), or the calls for martyrdom by clerics — it's silly to try and appease those. Israel should hold itself to a higher moral standard, as you've said.

... a-a-nd, I think we've gone wildly offtopic for HN, so let's just call people once again to support the Indiegogo campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/save-gaza-s-only-startup-...

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#42

Post by blisterpeanuts » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 3:02 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #23

ars wrote: post #2

It's interesting that even during the height of the recent Gaza war Israel maintained the Internet connections to Gaza. May increased communication and ventures like the article mention bring Gazans the democracy they desperately need.

I'd be surprised if Israel would permit Palestine to build network infrastructure crossing the border to Egypt. First, Israel is deeply suspicious of any construction projects in Palestine to the point of rigidly controlling imports of materials as prosaic as concrete. Underground tunnels for telecommunications, especially those crossing the border to Egypt, would be strictly verboten. Second, it's in Israel's intere…

Concrete can be (and has obviously been) used to build infiltration tunnels under the border. If the Gazans were not building tunnels, and in general were not engaged in provocative acts such as firing rockets across the border, there's no limit to the trade and investment that could be happening between the two regions. The sea coast could be a billion dollar resort; the Gazan labor force could be productively employed; and the farms and greenhouses could be growing tons of items for consumption and export.

This woman's enterprise, established under the sparsest of conditions, is an example of what can be done if there were peaceful relations and if the government in Gaza were truly representative and dedicated to peaceful negotiations etc. A warlike government that caters to the militants in Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs, etc., is simply uninterested in economic development, nor does it have any native expertise in that area. Its only legitimacy is based on armed conflict with its neighbor and armed suppression of dissidents internally.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#43

Post by adambenayoun » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 3:11 PM UTC

ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #30

reuven wrote: post #28

As an Israeli, I'm delighted to see Gaza citizens building businesses, gaining skills, and making money. This is in the mutual interest of Palestinians and Israelis alike. I wish that it were somehow possible for Israelis to help the Gazans in their attempts to build such businesses, but realize that this is (for now) sadly unrealistic. For now, I wish them great success, and am excited to see them start the process…

I applaud your attitude, and firmly believe you are part of a quiet (or less vocal) majority on both sides. Although this [1] project seems to have evaporated, things like that and your comment give great hope. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/technology/29compute.html

I'm Israeli too - I applaud and support the Gazan startup economy. I know this is the only hope to build a solid bridge between the Israeli and Gazan community.

I wish both sides could be more vocal.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#44

Post by ecommercematt » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 3:32 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #37

aidos wrote: post #22

Right, I'm going to post this at the top level in the hopes that the extremely intelligent people of HN see it and remember why we're all here. As I said below: This is not the time or place for raising the political issues. I'm keeping my political opinions out of it on this forum and I wish everyone else would have the good sense do the same. If there's ever an article about Gaza on the front page of HN it's remove…

Why are talking about politics so bad? If you dont talk about politics and if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip then how can you understand why running a startup incubator there is such a feat? Many of the extremely intelligent people on HN are here because they want to change the world in some way. Hopefully for the better. Politics is one of the most powerful tools for impr…

Without discussing politics, people with widely varying perspectives on Gaza understand that the present reality of life in Gaza poses extra challenges for those engaged in the inherently challenging pursuit of starting a startup.

To understand why "talking about politics" is harmful on this site, let's review this excerpt from your post:

"if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip"

Hacker News isn't a good place for me to point out my many disagreements with your analysis, but to illustrate my point, I'll point out that: 1) the blockade isn't "complete," 2) Egypt also shares a border with Gaza and enforces a blockade, and 3) that making a claim that you're "not allowed to mention Israel's ____" is either an instance of, or (very probably) merely resembles, bigoted, anti-Jewish narratives about Jewish control of speech, the press, etc. I assume it just bears resemblance to bigotry, but can you understand why to some people particularly sensitive to anti-Jewish prejudice, this would make them a little bit uneasy?

"Why are talking about politics so bad?"

It isn't bad to talk about politics, but based on my feedback, do you see why your comments above lead to off-topic discussions for Hacker News?

You know what really offends me, though? That damn auto-playing ad on the article!

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#45

Post by bjourne » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

ecommercematt wrote: post #44

bjourne wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are talking about politics so bad? If you dont talk about politics and if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip then how can you understand why running a startup incubator there is such a feat? Many of the extremely intelligent people on HN are here because they want to change the world in some way. Hopefully for the better. Politics is one of the most powerful tools for impr…

Without discussing politics, people with widely varying perspectives on Gaza understand that the present reality of life in Gaza poses extra challenges for those engaged in the inherently challenging pursuit of starting a startup. To understand why "talking about politics" is harmful on this site, let's review this excerpt from your post: "if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip…

Connecting what I wrote with anti-semitism, that's just.. no I wont respond to that.

Afaik, the blockade maintained by Egypt and Israel is almost "complete. " As in the amount of imports/exports are only a few percent of the pre-blockade levels. Computers and batteries are among the blockaded goods so the laptop the girl in the photo is using, is almost certainly smuggled through using one of the tunnels.

Now waxing on what I think about the blockade, that's pretty useless I agree. But stating that it is there, and it has a huge detrimental impact on the people of Gaza that's pretty useful to know, don't you think?

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#46

Post by Yadi » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

Kudos SkyGeeks folks! I'm from North Iraq I know how much of dedication and hard work it takes to leverage a startup.

Don't speak the politics language, when you do business or become an entrepreneur open your doors to everyone. I'm sure there would be people from Israel or any other region be willing to invest in your talents and skills.

Follow the dream & passion don't let the other trivial stuff staph! you.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#47

Post by JupiterMoon » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

ikonst wrote: post #36

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's totally possible to help, for starters you could be campaigning to end the settlements and occupation.

You're mixing up Gaza and the West Bank. What Israel (and Egypt) are doing is - 1) blockading Gaza, 2) entering armed conflicts with the Hamas with high human casualties and vast damage to infrastructure Israel is not occupying Gaza. All settlements in the Gaza strip were dismantled in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza The Israeli military absolutely does not enter Gaza frivolously as…

The UN (and everyone except the USA) considers Gaza de facto occupied.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#48

Post by bjourne » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

seivan wrote: post #34

thenipper wrote: post #33

Whoa! I work for Mercy Corps, the agency funding this. It is really awesome to see something from work here. I'm obviously biased but I think it is a great program that is really helping the people of Gaza. Additionally the focus on women and helping them enter the work force is really great. As jacalata said they are doing a fundraiser that ends in about 20 hours if you want to help out: https://www.indiegogo.com/pr…

Well, with 200 million euro annually pumped there by Sweden alone I'd be surprised if we didn't see stuff like this. While now we can't feed Syrian refugees because the UN is out of money. Not to mention the genocide on Christian Arabs, or kidnappings for sex-slavery of over 7000 female Yezidis by Arabic and Somalian islamists largely from Europe. But hey... lets riot and collect money for Gaza.

Actually 282m SEK 2014 or about 30m € in total aid to the Palestinian territories: http://www.sida.se/English/press/current-topics-archive/2014... So you're off by a factor of 10 but it's still a lot.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#49

Post by JupiterMoon » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #16

smcl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too political\opinionated but Israel does not have a particularly strong reputation for respecting international laws regarding Palestine (West Bank or Gaza) which makes it even more surprising if they continued to supply power.

Does this change your opinion?

Didn't Israel bomb the power station in Gaza?

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#50

Post by JupiterMoon » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #12

hrasyid wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and the Egyptian regime is more interested in providing internet to Gazans than Israel? Actually, I'm curious, how does Gaza get its internet? Any source/reference mentioning this?

> Actually, I'm curious, how does Gaza get its internet? As I said, it's via Israel. Same with phone service and postal mail.

Indeed everything enters or leaves via Israel...