Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades • Hacker News Board

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#21

Post by random28345 » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:24 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #17

[deleted] wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It's extremely easy to keep Israel from bombing Gaza: Don't launch rockets at Israel. Now presumably not all the residents of Gaza want to kill Israel, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders they chose in their one and only election).

It's extremely easy to keep Gaza from launching rockets from Israel: Israel should stop perpetuating an apartheid state.

Now, presumably not all the residents of Israel are Zionists who want a theocracy that discriminates against non-Jewish faith, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders elected by disenfranchising residents)

For the record, I don't think either side is right; it's basically fascists keeping civilians in concentration camps vs. terrorists wanting to blow up civilians, but when you characterize the problems in the Middle East as, "oh, the bad guys are bad, they just need to stop being bad", you're part of the problem.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#22

Post by aidos » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:26 AM UTC

Right, I'm going to post this at the top level in the hopes that the extremely intelligent people of HN see it and remember why we're all here.

As I said below:

This is not the time or place for raising the political issues. I'm keeping my political opinions out of it on this forum and I wish everyone else would have the good sense do the same.

If there's ever an article about Gaza on the front page of HN it's removed within a couple of hours because people start banging on about politics. I could quite happy argue about it all day long, but not here, and not now.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#23

Post by beloch » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:32 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #2

It's interesting that even during the height of the recent Gaza war Israel maintained the Internet connections to Gaza. May increased communication and ventures like the article mention bring Gazans the democracy they desperately need.

I'd be surprised if Israel would permit Palestine to build network infrastructure crossing the border to Egypt.

First, Israel is deeply suspicious of any construction projects in Palestine to the point of rigidly controlling imports of materials as prosaic as concrete. Underground tunnels for telecommunications, especially those crossing the border to Egypt, would be strictly verboten.

Second, it's in Israel's interests to supply Gaza with as much of their communications needs as possible. Internet, cable TV, cellular communications, etc.. If they have a branch similar to the NSA this makes monitoring much easier. Also, if it ever proves strategically advantageous, they have the ability to disrupt all these channels of communication and deny them to their enemy. (That they haven't so far during conflict suggests they do monitor communications.) If Israel simply refused to provide these services Palestinians would find ways to obtain them that Israel would not control and may find more difficult to monitor.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#24

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:35 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #17

[deleted] wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It's extremely easy to keep Israel from bombing Gaza: Don't launch rockets at Israel. Now presumably not all the residents of Gaza want to kill Israel, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders they chose in their one and only election).

[deleted]

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#25

Post by gjm11 » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:44 AM UTC

For anyone thinking "oh, that's a clunky title", it may be worth pointing out the pun it's making. Milton's poem Samson Agonistes (a telling of the Biblical story of Samson) contains the following famous[1] lines (from Samson, lamenting his capture and blinding by the Philistines):

  Ask for this great Deliverer now, and find him
  Eyeless in Gaza at the Mill with slaves,
  Himself in bonds under Philistian yoke;

and the phrase is second-order famous [2] because Aldous Huxley wrote a book called Eyeless in Gaza.

(The title would be more than a clever but pointless allusion if, e.g., the article were about wireless networking use by Israeli spies in Gaza. But I can't imagine such an article surviving long without degenerating into the usual flamewar.)

[1] That is: famous among those among whom such things are famous.

[2] See [1].

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#26

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:46 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #15

smcl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too political\opinionated but Israel does not have a particularly strong reputation for respecting international laws regarding Palestine (West Bank or Gaza) which makes it even more surprising if they continued to supply power.

> which makes it even more surprising if they continued to supply power. You don't understand Israel at all. It would be surprising if they didn't supply power. Israel doesn't hate Gazans, they just want Gazans to stop attacking them. They pulled out of Gaza to give them less of a reason to hate Israel, but that didn't work. Israel has little interest in giving them a country, it is true. But not because they want to…

[deleted]

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#27

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:46 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #18

ars wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely easy to keep Israel from bombing Gaza: Don't launch rockets at Israel. Now presumably not all the residents of Gaza want to kill Israel, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders they chose in their one and only election).

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#28

Post by reuven » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 10:55 AM UTC

As an Israeli, I'm delighted to see Gaza citizens building businesses, gaining skills, and making money. This is in the mutual interest of Palestinians and Israelis alike.

I wish that it were somehow possible for Israelis to help the Gazans in their attempts to build such businesses, but realize that this is (for now) sadly unrealistic.

For now, I wish them great success, and am excited to see them start the process of giving Gaza a flourishing civilian economy.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#29

Post by YNotCombinate » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 11:15 AM UTC

random28345 wrote: post #21

ars wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely easy to keep Israel from bombing Gaza: Don't launch rockets at Israel. Now presumably not all the residents of Gaza want to kill Israel, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders they chose in their one and only election).

It's extremely easy to keep Gaza from launching rockets from Israel: Israel should stop perpetuating an apartheid state. Now, presumably not all the residents of Israel are Zionists who want a theocracy that discriminates against non-Jewish faith, but enough do, and the rest suffer because of them (and because of the leaders elected by disenfranchising residents) For the record, I don't think either side is right; it…

Israel should keep perpetuating an apartheid state, with Arab members of government, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, gay rights and women’s rights. If they're in Israel- less so for Arabs in other areas, like Gaza, but that isn't Israel's doing.

I wish concentration camps in WWII had conditions like the West Bank and Gaza- millions of people more would have lived.

Re: Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades

#30

Post by ezequiel-garzon » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 11:28 AM UTC

reuven wrote: post #28

As an Israeli, I'm delighted to see Gaza citizens building businesses, gaining skills, and making money. This is in the mutual interest of Palestinians and Israelis alike. I wish that it were somehow possible for Israelis to help the Gazans in their attempts to build such businesses, but realize that this is (for now) sadly unrealistic. For now, I wish them great success, and am excited to see them start the process…

I applaud your attitude, and firmly believe you are part of a quiet (or less vocal) majority on both sides. Although this [1] project seems to have evaporated, things like that and your comment give great hope.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/technology/29compute.html