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One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

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Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#31
post #2

"Even going to the tape, though, is not always enough. The mother of the guy in the Santa suit maintained that the police should’ve taken her son, who eventually passed out, back to his room, not to jail. Recounting the story, Mr. Williamson looks momentarily exasperated. He tried to explain, he says, that her son was safer sleeping off his drunkenness under supervision." It seems the LEOs cannot win when dealing wit…

I'd chalk it up to the squeaky wheel problem.

There are a huge number of situations where there are two sets of rules or prices or options, one for most people and one for people who complain once. If you're a sucker, you pay retail. If you make the slightest effort to haggle, you can save money. You can bargain your traffic tickets down to non-moving violations for fewer points off your license and a smaller fine. If you complain at a hotel you might get a free spa pass. If you have overdue library books, you can sometimes sweet talk the librarian into waiving your fine. If you ask for a raise, you might get it.

There are a huge number of situations where -- by making the slightest protest -- you can sometimes save a bit of time or money or get something for nothing, and moreover there is usually no penalty for trying. I don't think this mother was doing anything different: she may not think her child is a special flower, but she has learned through much experience in life that it never hurts to ask for special treatment, because you sometimes get it.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#32
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

This is a good observation, and reminds me of an article I read a while back about why the parole system works so poorly (it was a great article, sorry that I don't have the link). The theory was that much or our criminal law system makes an assumption of a rational actor. A 1% chance of severe penalty would deter a crime where they payoff is minor (i.e.., the small chance of a severely punished DUI would convince a…

Your description of people's reaction to the risk and severity of punishment sounds entirely rational.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#33
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harsh sentances for murderers also very likely do not prevent murder. But they do keep known murderers in places where the exposure to potential victims is much lower. By doing so, we have a safer world even if we do not have a significant disincentive to commit murder.

And now you know why the US houses most of the world's prisoners [0]. This is the same thinking that brings the US security theater at its airports. Anything for safety, even if it only mariginally works. [0] https://www.aclu.org/safe-communities-fair-sentences/prison-...

Who's talking about prison? Driving is a privilege. Suspending it, possibly forever, doesn't appraoch custodial sentences.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

If the laws are on the books and applied in a non-arbitrary way the perception of DUI might change - after all you want people to be sober behind the wheel even when the police aren't looking. Unfortunately, in the US, you can't breathalyze everyone on a Saturday night, you have to have "reasonable suspicion". Which means that on weekends, the roads are less safe than they could be, I avoid driving on the weekend aft…

Sobriety checkpoints without reasonable suspicion were ruled by the Supreme Court to not violate the 4th amendment, and only ten states have prohibited such checkpoints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_checkpoint#Legality_in_t...

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#35

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

It would take something short of a drunk driving massacre to get the momentum needed to harshly punish drunk driving. Like many laws in America a lot of it emotion driven - a lower drinking age would most likely help the college binge drinking problem, but advocating for such a law means someone is going to call you out on trying to turn the children of America into alcoholics. Likewise, no one wants to be on the oth…

[deleted]

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas is not realy the USA, they don't like much law and taxes. Most states come down hard on drinking and driving.

I think it depends on which law you are talking about. Airport immigration authorities in texas are a lot worse than SF i've found.

That is federal law, not state law. Border states are always more harsh on immigration rules than non-border states (though Portland's Japanese nickname before 9/11 used to be Deportland).

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#37
post #21

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

Compare to the UK - you can buy alcohol at 18; you can have alcohol on licenced premises with a meal if you're with parents and 16 or over. https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/alcohol-and-the... We have a pretty severe problem with alcohol here. One in five ambulances in London a the weekends are for alcohol related injuries; hospitals in major cities have drunk tanks; cirrhosis is affecting more people and…

A minor can have alcohol with a parent in the state of Missouri as well. In fact, it's not technically illegal there for a minor to consume alcohol. It's only illegal to purchase or possess, but they consider a BAC over 0.02% as possession.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#38
post #11

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

> "you would rather limit damage and trust peoples' responsibility" True, but most American cultural pathologies are rooted in mistrust of others, a mistrust which is itself often rooted in one or more fears that derive from ignorance. When you are ignorant and fearful of a problem or a group of people, it's much easier to appeal to your government to do something about it rather than actually try to understand that…

Your comment is itself generalizing and demonstrating ignorance about a very large and diverse group of people.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#39

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much.

I don't think stricter DUI laws will work, they rely on the absurd idea that a drunk will somehow have enough self-awareness to make a rational decision (not to drive).

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#40
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

Texas is not realy the USA, they don't like much law and taxes. Most states come down hard on drinking and driving.

Texas is not realy the USA...

An attractive sentiment in general, but it's not true. Texas is just like every other state, in that they spend way too much on the "enforcement" of drunk-driving laws. The reason is obvious: local police and sheriffs get the same ridiculous federal grants that LEOs in all other states get.

EDIT: Congratulations to Louisiana, I expect they laugh at Texas' patchwork of dry and "partially-moist" counties.

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