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One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

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Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#21

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

Compare to the UK - you can buy alcohol at 18; you can have alcohol on licenced premises with a meal if you're with parents and 16 or over.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/alcohol-and-the...

We have a pretty severe problem with alcohol here.

One in five ambulances in London a the weekends are for alcohol related injuries; hospitals in major cities have drunk tanks; cirrhosis is affecting more people and younger people -- and these problems are not in the population of people with alcoholism but in the people who just drink too much.

So it'd be interesting to work out how other countries manage it.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#22

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada.

In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never consider drinking and driving.

In the US those same type of friends seeming drink and drive 5-6 days a week, often after consuming amounts of alcohol I consider ridiculous. Additionally I regularly interact with professionals and even professors who drink and drive.

This is purely my opinion, but the difference I experience here is outa control when it comes to drinking and driving and I do think the harsh punishments have something to do with it.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#23
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

Texas is not realy the USA, they don't like much law and taxes. Most states come down hard on drinking and driving.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

Texas is not realy the USA, they don't like much law and taxes. Most states come down hard on drinking and driving.

In my experience people are similar to the parent in both California and Massachusetts.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

Canada and the United States, while similar, are not culturally the same.

Children in the States, because they are already breaking the law by drinking, routinely get behind the wheel without thinking about it. They get home safely and learn that it's ok to drink and drive.

In the US, we have a combination of a binge drinking culture, a driving culture and a fierce independence from authority. The combination isn't the best for deterring drinking and driving.

Here's a simple reason laws don't work as well as you'd think: when you drink and drive, you're not in your right mind. You're less inhibited than you would be otherwise and often you think you're fine to drive. Without sober or semi-sober friends around, there's nothing stopping you from doing just that.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#26
post #13

I went to UGA my freshman year. Compared to other campuses where the parties are at fraternities or private residences, Athens is a bar (and, as the article points out, a fake ID) town. It was very much a wink-and-grin environment: the "bad photocopy job pasted onto a McDonald's gift card" description is very apt. Some bars were tougher than others, but for a guy, showing up with a favorable distribution of girls wou…

(Re open container suspension) A few years ago I paid a $280 fine for walking an open beer across the street in Athens. To this article's point I think the cops pick and choose as to where they may be most effective at a given point in the day, the beer didn't have a label on it (I brewed it) and the cop may have thought it looked odd.

Although the town has stayed the same since my years in Athens, I do think there is an uptick in underage drinking in general, or at the least a larger movement to drinking harder spirits. Personally, I think there is a larger mention of liquor by name in today's music than there has been in the past and that plays a part.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#27
post #21

She runs “bartending school” for incoming students during mandatory orientation sessions at Georgia. Handing over a vodka bottle full of water, she asks them to pour what they think is one drink into a 16-ounce cup. After a discussion of alcohol’s physical effects and consequences, she empties the cups into two-ounce shot glasses. What seemed like one drink is often two or three. In normal countries, teenagers start…

Compare to the UK - you can buy alcohol at 18; you can have alcohol on licenced premises with a meal if you're with parents and 16 or over. https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/alcohol-and-the... We have a pretty severe problem with alcohol here. One in five ambulances in London a the weekends are for alcohol related injuries; hospitals in major cities have drunk tanks; cirrhosis is affecting more people and…

Yeah, it's always interesting comparing drinking laws. In the UK we've tried to crackdown on underage drinking quite a bit in the past decade or two. But it hasn't really worked particularly well. Part of it is that in their crackdown on drinking, they've massively increased the taxes on alcohol (as if price will stop people partying!). These have really squeezed the little country pubs so much that roughly 30 pubs are closing down every week now. You may think that this is a good thing on the surface, but all it does is drive people (and kids) from the small safe pubs in the villages, to the big venues and clubs in the towns and cities; which are open far later and push far stronger alcohol to maximise sales. And it's the concentration of people in the major drinking towns that leads to a lot of the disorderly behaviour, violence and accidents requiring A&E.

Whereas 20-30 years ago, small village pubs were a mainstay of drinking culture. Turning a blind eye to the occasional kid drinking a pint or two was a heck of a lot safer than pushing them into the cities with fake IDs. Or buying litres of spirits and downing them on a park bench. But pubs can't afford to take any risk nowadays, for each 17 year old you accidentally let into the pub, it's a £10k fine for the manager, £5k fine for the barman who serves the kid. Plus a possible revocation of license.

Then there's the social downsides of being too strict on drinking for the rest of us. The "Think 25?" campaign is particularly terrible, it catches even people like me at age 30. I can understand that maybe I look under 25, but do I really look 17 years or less - that's what the law says they have to legally look out for after all. That is my legal right. It's insulting and an infringement on basic liberties that we should be able to take for granted. I envisage having to carry ID on me for a good 5-10 years more, unless I grow a beard...

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

Texas is not realy the USA, they don't like much law and taxes. Most states come down hard on drinking and driving.

I think it depends on which law you are talking about. Airport immigration authorities in texas are a lot worse than SF i've found.

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#29

The solution to this is to start drinking beers with your kids at age 10. This way drinking will be the most uncool thing ever, and they'll grow up to be teetotalers. Seriously though, we need a culture change. You can't tell them they can never drink, then turn them loose in another city by themselves and expect it to not be taken to extremes. That's pretty dumb.

This is actually allowed in some states. There's doesn't seem to be any particular pattern to which states allow it and which don't, eg stereotypically liberal California has the same ultra-strict requirements as stereotypically conservative Kentucky. Here's a neat summary of the different exceptions to the 21-year minimum age rule, broken out by state.

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...

Re: One college town's uneasy embrace of drinking

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not hand out serious prison time for first-time drunk drivers? It would increase road safety so much. Research suggests that you might be wrong. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/twitter-politics-drunken-... > Key quote: “Harsher sanctions to drinking and driving may generate no marginal deterrent effect if drivers’ perceived risks of receiving the punishments are low. Therefore, rather than escalating sanctio…

This is a purely anecdotal response but I live in Texas now and come from Canada where the punishments for drunk driving are very severe. In short I am absolutely floored by the casual nature of drunk driving here, across all segments of society compared to Canada. In Canada my very alternative friends to whom casual law breaking like illegal drinking and drugs would be nothing, would almost universally never conside…

I don't think you can reliably compare things on one variable like this. A counter-comparison that reaches an opposite conclusion: Here in Denmark the sentences for drunk driving are considerably lower than in the US, rarely involving prison time. And yet drunk driving is less common. Typically the punishment is suspension of license and a fine, with the duration of suspension, and the amount of fine, increasing with higher BAC and with repeated offenses. The focus is on removing people from the roads (by suspending their license, possibly for multi-year periods), but not imprisoning them. In extreme cases (BAC >0.2%, repeated offenses, etc.), prison sentences of 20–40 days may be imposed, but rarely more.

Details [Google Translate]: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

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