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A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

nytimes.com

41–50 of 50 posts

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#41

I live a block away and push my 5yo, on a Citibike, by its base every morning on our way to the subway. It is not my favorite building in the city (the Chrysler and Woolworth buildings are far more engaging) but it is absolutely iconic. As soon as the observatory deck opens next year, it will become a tourist mecca. For those in the neighborhood, the big change will be when the other half of the fencing around the 9/…

All right, be honest, that whole post was really just an excuse to show off your cute kids to all of hacker news, right?

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#42

I've admired this building throughout its construction and reading this critic's postmodern teardown really irked me. I'm a hardcore modernist in that I think a building's elegance is measured by it's functionality. This structure has multiple, in many ways contradictory functional requirements, needing to simultaneously be a supertall office building, monument, and fortress. This is no simple task. Given these requi…

> This structure has multiple, in many ways contradictory functional requirements, needing to simultaneously be a supertall office building, monument, and fortress. I think the article deliberately questioned a lot of those requirements, to its credit: > There had been talk after Sept. 11 about the World Trade Center development’s including housing, culture and retail, capitalizing on urban trends and the growing des…

That's a fair point - the author does spend a fair bit of time questioning the functional requirements themselves. I am not informed enough on urban planning or the circumstances surrounding the site to make a judgement there. I will, however, say that making the building 1) secure and 2) historically aware seem to be non-optional requirements given the nature of the site.

I was more so addressing the critique of the structure itself:

>One World Trade is symmetrical to a fault, stunted at its peak, its heavy corners the opposite of immaterial. There’s no mystery, no unraveling of light, no metamorphosis over time, nothing to hold your gaze

My point is primarily that such traits as those advocated by the critic, that the building be be ‘immaterial', ‘mysterious', and ‘metamorphosing', are highly subjective. I could just as easily state that the building ought to be ‘substantive', ‘familiar', and ’stable'. My architectural preference is for buildings that avoid trying to achieve any of these "qualities" of taste, but rather buildings that deliver elegant solutions to their objective requirements. If ‘mysteriousness’ is a necessary trait in order to achieve the function of the building, then so be it. But the critic simply attacks the building for lacking certain qualities that he has not adequately tied to the purpose and nature of the building.

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This structure has multiple, in many ways contradictory functional requirements, needing to simultaneously be a supertall office building, monument, and fortress. I think the article deliberately questioned a lot of those requirements, to its credit: > There had been talk after Sept. 11 about the World Trade Center development’s including housing, culture and retail, capitalizing on urban trends and the growing des…

That's a fair point - the author does spend a fair bit of time questioning the functional requirements themselves. I am not informed enough on urban planning or the circumstances surrounding the site to make a judgement there. I will, however, say that making the building 1) secure and 2) historically aware seem to be non-optional requirements given the nature of the site. I was more so addressing the critique of the…

Yeah, it's not a very good or well-focused article, but it's hard to write convincingly on why a building looks ugly, right?

Was it strictly necessary to make the new WTC tower so secure against terror attack that it looks like a bunker from street level? The original Twin Towers weren't even destroyed from a street-level attack. They couldn't and didn't make the building airplane-proof, and if you're going to bomb something in NYC from street level the WTC is hardly the only or best target. So I think the security requirement was poorly thought through.

As for historical awareness, I think American culture is in the grip of sentimentality and nostalgia. This is the same country that stubbornly rebuilt a gradually sinking city that lays below sea level when it was inevitably destroyed by a hurricane. What's wrong with putting up a tasteful memorial and redeveloping the site in a way that meets the needs of the community?

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#44

I live a block away and push my 5yo, on a Citibike, by its base every morning on our way to the subway. It is not my favorite building in the city (the Chrysler and Woolworth buildings are far more engaging) but it is absolutely iconic. As soon as the observatory deck opens next year, it will become a tourist mecca. For those in the neighborhood, the big change will be when the other half of the fencing around the 9/…

How do you take a kid on a citibike?

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#45
post #19

You need a Segway to get around down there. Want a cup of coffee? Just a 10 minute elevator ride and 4 blocks walking to get to only shop in the building. Don't want Patisserie Financier? 4 more blocks, and you have to cross the west side highway.

This is incorrect. Underneath 1WTC there is a massive set of stores, and 2 super markets are coming into the base of 4WTC.

Aren't there also going to be lots of shops in the new Fulton St transit station?

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spire is there so that the building is respectfully not taller than the old towers, but still can win the stupid "tallest building" guiness record. Typical play to vanity metrics.

No I mean the fact that they neutered the spire. The original design called for a tapered spire. It ended up being built as simple antenna, seemingly with platforms every few stories. It looks unfinished. For a long time I was hoping it was simply unfinished. Turns out it was changed to save $20 million. http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023045439045773...

There was an engineering issue with wind loading on the clad version of the spire so they left it off.

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#47

It lacks wow-factor and it is not an iconic addition to the skyline. The Twin Towers (and the Empire State) very much said 'this is New York'. When I first went to New York I very much wanted to go up the Empire State - a visit without going to the top would not have felt complete. I am sure many, many tourists feel the same. However, with the Twin Towers there was somewhere higher to go so tourists would be siphoned…

There _are_ some new or recent innovative buildings going up in Manhattan, though. Hearst Tower is quite amazing and has a bunch of innovative systems (it's LEED certified and all that but also has meaningful improvements in comfort and efficiency), and the building going up right now at 10 Hudson Yards is a miracle of CAD that probably could not have been built 10 years ago.

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point - the author does spend a fair bit of time questioning the functional requirements themselves. I am not informed enough on urban planning or the circumstances surrounding the site to make a judgement there. I will, however, say that making the building 1) secure and 2) historically aware seem to be non-optional requirements given the nature of the site. I was more so addressing the critique of the…

Yeah, it's not a very good or well-focused article, but it's hard to write convincingly on why a building looks ugly, right? Was it strictly necessary to make the new WTC tower so secure against terror attack that it looks like a bunker from street level? The original Twin Towers weren't even destroyed from a street-level attack. They couldn't and didn't make the building airplane-proof, and if you're going to bomb s…

Yea, at the end of the day there is just a ton of emotion tied up with this site - so you're right in that the security requirements / monumentality of it probably go beyond what the optimal specifications should be. It's kindof a timeless debate, how to balance the emotional with the rational (going way beyond just architecture). The emotional aspect is definitely supercharged in this case.

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#49
post #41

I live a block away and push my 5yo, on a Citibike, by its base every morning on our way to the subway. It is not my favorite building in the city (the Chrysler and Woolworth buildings are far more engaging) but it is absolutely iconic. As soon as the observatory deck opens next year, it will become a tourist mecca. For those in the neighborhood, the big change will be when the other half of the fencing around the 9/…

All right, be honest, that whole post was really just an excuse to show off your cute kids to all of hacker news, right?

At least I included the backdrop to have it be somewhat on subject.

Re: A Soaring Emblem of New York, and Its Upside-Down Priorities

#50

I live a block away and push my 5yo, on a Citibike, by its base every morning on our way to the subway. It is not my favorite building in the city (the Chrysler and Woolworth buildings are far more engaging) but it is absolutely iconic. As soon as the observatory deck opens next year, it will become a tourist mecca. For those in the neighborhood, the big change will be when the other half of the fencing around the 9/…

How do you take a kid on a citibike?

It's a half mile to the subway, and I walk a lot faster than my 5yo. So I get a Citibike, put the seat at the lowest setting, he holds on to the handlebars, and I walk next to him, pushing the bike. It's not strictly following Citibike's terms of service, but he loves it, and we move much faster.
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