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Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

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Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#31

Post by mcantelon »

philh wrote: post #30
argentpyro wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben Noordhuis reverted a commit that had removed gendered language from libuv documentation: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40e Joyent received a lot of flak because people believe that Ben was a Joyent employee (he actually worked for Strongloop). Joyent came out with a post separating themselves from Ben, saying that they were in support of gender neutral language: https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-…

The thing that annoys me most about this post is that > to reject a pull request that eliminates a gendered pronoun on the principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered is not what Ben was doing, and nothing Ben said on the subject could have given that impression. "Empathy is a core engineering value", and when you ascribe untrue motivations to people, you are completely failing at it.

The business context of the post is interesting: IIRC at the time there'd been friction between Joyent and Strongloop (who Ben works for) and each company had two core contributors (one of whom was Ben). After the commit controversy Ben, IIRC, stopped contributing to core for awhile.

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#32

Post by x0x0 »

hacknat wrote: post #23
georgeb_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something seems to be happening at Joyent a lot of good people have left recently; Brendan Gregg, Deirdré Straughan, Ben Rockwood, Mark Cavage and so on. I love the work Joyent put out and have great admiration for them but something is off.

Mark left? How did you find that out? This must have been super recent.

he's building some sort of amazon cloud competitor at oracle [1]. Kind of inevitable, really, now that amazon is building Aurora and going after Oracle's core business.

https://gigaom.com/2014/11/25/oracle-bulks-up-its-public-clo...

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#33

Post by x0x0 »

georgeb_ wrote: post #5
afandian wrote: post #2

The behaviour of Joyent towards Ben Nordhuis left a very bad taste in my mouth last year. So I checked on the contributions to libuv [1] and it looks like he's back on the project. I wonder what happened? [1] https://github.com/libuv/libuv/commits?author=bnoordhuis

Something seems to be happening at Joyent a lot of good people have left recently; Brendan Gregg, Deirdré Straughan, Ben Rockwood, Mark Cavage and so on. I love the work Joyent put out and have great admiration for them but something is off.

Netflix is happy to pay people like Brendan Gregg a fucking ton of money, so it doesn't necessarily speak to anything at Joyent. Joyent has been going for 8 years and just raised another round; that's a long time.

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#34

Post by cpeterso »

vkjv wrote: post #9
michaelmior wrote: post #3

Interesting new logo [0] [0] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/libuv/libuv/a499b737bf58b0...

I guess the "uv" in "libuv" stands for "unicorn velociraptor." Edit: "libuv" stand for "Librarian Unicorn Velociraptor". http://logs.nodejs.org/libuv/2012-09-09

What did the "uv" in stand for originally?

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#35

Post by scljstcwombat »

shawndrost wrote: post #25
untog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that was the reason he used in the discussion thread. His reply was: "Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that."

He went into more depth later: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568... Among other things that might change your impression of Ben: 1) The work that the PR required from him was much more than clicking the merge button. 2) He's a non-native speaker of English and at the time he reverted the commit, he was under the impression that the difference was academic. 3) In his spare time, he teaches y…

Ben's answers on this have always been deeply unsatisfactory:

1) a) the merge was accomplished trivially by another maintainer; the idea that there was "more work" required of ben is demonstrably false.

1) b) he undertook more work to revert the existing commit, also see 2)

2) a) at the time he reverted the commit, there was substantial explanation on the issue on why it was important.

2) b) because Ben failed to check with his own colleague, he was unaware the commit had in fact been signed off - there was no rule problem here, apart from "not telling Ben".

3) lots of people do nice things and are assholes in other circumstances.

Apart from the sarcastic tone of his post ("if this gets us scores of female contributors" indeed), the grapevine says he was pretty deeply offensive to Issac over the issue as well.

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#36

Post by centrinoblue »

afandian wrote: post #27
untog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that was the reason he used in the discussion thread. His reply was: "Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that."

That's precisely what I mean by tone of voice. Egalitarianism (and all kinds of society-improving imperatives) are important, but if someone submits a change that is objectively a small number of bytes (regardless of the social ramifications) and doesn't follow the procedures, then they are causing him a problem. He could certainly have phrased it better (which I characterised as 'tone of voice'), but as you get your…

His employer did support him: http://strongloop.com/strongblog/collaboration-not-derision-...

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#37

Post by afandian »

centrinoblue wrote: post #36
afandian wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely what I mean by tone of voice. Egalitarianism (and all kinds of society-improving imperatives) are important, but if someone submits a change that is objectively a small number of bytes (regardless of the social ramifications) and doesn't follow the procedures, then they are causing him a problem. He could certainly have phrased it better (which I characterised as 'tone of voice'), but as you get your…

His employer did support him: http://strongloop.com/strongblog/collaboration-not-derision-...

That was a great blog post, one that I don't remember having seen. That's exactly what I'd hope for.

It kind of throws into contrast Joyent's. http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#38

Post by oso2k »

cpeterso wrote: post #34
vkjv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the "uv" in "libuv" stands for "unicorn velociraptor." Edit: "libuv" stand for "Librarian Unicorn Velociraptor". http://logs.nodejs.org/libuv/2012-09-09

What did the "uv" in stand for originally?

Don't quote me, but, I believe the expectation was that when you linked to it, you would be linking with "luv". Hence

cc -luv myapp.o -o myapp

This is intended to be much like the effect of GNU libiberty [0] (cc -liberty myapp.o -o myapp).

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libiberty

Re: Moving the joyent/libuv repository to libuv/libuv

#39

Post by oso2k »

argentpyro wrote: post #13
olalonde wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The behaviour of Joyent towards Ben Nordhuis left a very bad taste in my mouth last year. What happened?

Ben Noordhuis reverted a commit that had removed gendered language from libuv documentation: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40e Joyent received a lot of flak because people believe that Ben was a Joyent employee (he actually worked for Strongloop). Joyent came out with a post separating themselves from Ben, saying that they were in support of gender neutral language: https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-…

I honestly believe it was a malevolent attempt by Joyent to oust Ben for joining StrongLoop.
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