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Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

nirvdrum.com

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Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#81

Post by sharkweek »

Kequc wrote: post #52

I'm always brought back to the time I decided to literally sell everything I had and leave the country. A few weeks before leaving I listed each item I had for extremely reasonable prices. A $400 couch for $200, table for $20, beautiful custom framed long print of an old possibly rare poster for $50. Laser printer for $20. Ridiculously reasonable prices on everything on and on. Nobody bought anything and every thing…

This just reminds me what a terrible Craigslister I am - when I see something I want at a price I like, I don't bother offering anything less, I just say I'll pay the list price.

Wife on the other hand? I can't even be in the same room with her during negotiations over $40 chairs, she's ruthless and it makes me feel so awkward.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#82

Post by zmillman »

I knew I recognized you from somewhere! For those who don't know, nirvdrum's one of the primary contributors to rubber https://github.com/rubber/rubber (it's a pretty critical part of our current infrastructure)

In my book at least, you've already contributed a huge amount to open source and I wouldn't worry about needing to do more :)

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#83

Post by toomuchtodo »

mkremer90 wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a developer, I'm a DevOps admin, so perhaps I don't understand as well as I would if I was a developer (blood, sweat, time, all that jazz). I can see it being rude for people asking you to open source an ongoing concern side-project. But if your startup failed, your application didn't have any value in the marketplace (or you weren't able to execute). As you said: "If you don't think something is worth money,…

You're completely correct in my opinion, but I'd like to add one crucial point: If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died? They may not have valued it as much as the product was charging for, but that's a different debate entirely. I'm assuming there was some discussion of commercial viability, lowering price…

I believe we're in agreement then!

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#84

Post by Flimm »

mkremer90 wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a developer, I'm a DevOps admin, so perhaps I don't understand as well as I would if I was a developer (blood, sweat, time, all that jazz). I can see it being rude for people asking you to open source an ongoing concern side-project. But if your startup failed, your application didn't have any value in the marketplace (or you weren't able to execute). As you said: "If you don't think something is worth money,…

You're completely correct in my opinion, but I'd like to add one crucial point: If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died? They may not have valued it as much as the product was charging for, but that's a different debate entirely. I'm assuming there was some discussion of commercial viability, lowering price…

Some people value an open source product more than a proprietary one. Although in this case, the OP couldn't get enough funding to release it as open source.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#85

Post by zanny »

toolshift wrote: post #18

Having been through this kind of decision before, this really resonates with me. Especially the pettiness. When your business fails after years of struggle because people didn't want to pay for your software, and those same people make you feel guilty for not supporting the codebase after you can't pay the bills... that breeds the kind of resentment that creates real-life Walter Whites. It's hard to understand the ex…

> In short, please pay for your software.

I regularly donate to several free software projects (kde, gimp, vlc, firefox, and occasionally others) because they respect my freedom.

I strive to avoid proprietary products. If other developers want my money, I want my software freedoms. Those that provide them get money from me. I do understand this is not the norm behavior, and it is awful that it takes developers disrespecting the users of their software to have them pay for it. Just nobody sees the value in software freedom (and yes, even if you cannot write code you benefit from being able to pay any developer to fix your problems, and you can also pay auditors to inspect the code whereas with a proprietary product you are screwed).

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#86

Post by pnathan »

tptacek wrote: post #76
pnathan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, it is! The question is, are we as humanity entitled to previous work after $period_or_event? (I would argue that yes! we are! after... some debatable period or time, and I would argue that not all that can be recovered is worth recovering, but those are strictly subsidiary from the question).

Just to be clear: at issue here isn't whether some piece of code scraped from an HTTP response or found without a license on Github should revert to the public domain. The specific entitlement we are discussing is whether work you produce on your own in private, without ever revealing it to the public, is so encumbered by the entitlement of strangers that you have a duty to furnish it . That's what people who cajole…

Absolutely. To be crystal clear, I am discussing whether the technical & intellectual work produced as part of your (as commonly understood by the layperson) property and business, ought (as a duty) to be furnished by the creator/owner under some license to the broader world in some sense (whether by specific request or generalized publishing).

I argue that, generally, if said piece of property has no other encumbrance, then after some event or period of time, if this property is not providing value, the creator/owner should yield the property to the broad public, as their duty to society.

In particular, I am not asserting that they have a duty to make it useable or useful, or have a duty to do anything besides a tar ball or the moral equivalent. I am not asserting that it is always possible (encumbrances exist...). I am asserting the principle that our duty to society demands yielding this property up to the world at some point when we no longer find it valuable to own in any sense.

I am founding my statement of duty based upon reading too many papers from the 50s-70s where really interesting systems were developed, and then redeveloped years later, when the original companies had disappeared or discontinued the initial product. I think we could be much further along if the publishing of source was a commonly done thing.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#87

Post by toomuchtodo »

Flimm wrote: post #84
mkremer90 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely correct in my opinion, but I'd like to add one crucial point: If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died? They may not have valued it as much as the product was charging for, but that's a different debate entirely. I'm assuming there was some discussion of commercial viability, lowering price…

Some people value an open source product more than a proprietary one. Although in this case, the OP couldn't get enough funding to release it as open source.

If someone won't pay for a closed product, and won't pay to open it up, they don't value it at all.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#88

Post by dethstar »

mkremer90 wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a developer, I'm a DevOps admin, so perhaps I don't understand as well as I would if I was a developer (blood, sweat, time, all that jazz). I can see it being rude for people asking you to open source an ongoing concern side-project. But if your startup failed, your application didn't have any value in the marketplace (or you weren't able to execute). As you said: "If you don't think something is worth money,…

You're completely correct in my opinion, but I'd like to add one crucial point: If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died? They may not have valued it as much as the product was charging for, but that's a different debate entirely. I'm assuming there was some discussion of commercial viability, lowering price…

>If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died?

If we are talking about a start up, what about current clients? Maybe your business could not be sustained by the number of clients you had, they do find value in but they can not by themselves sustain your business.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#89

Post by [deleted] »

danielweber wrote: post #58
nirvdrum wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is because you'll invariably be criticized for not merging some pull request.

Create an account with a throwaway address, put the project up, then walk away. I have a few projects on Github that aren't under my name because I don't want to be pestered about them, ever. And I never have.

[deleted]

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#90

Post by thecynic »

Is it possible that you failed at commercialization, and now you can't bear the thought that open sourcing your creation might lead to zero stars and forks on Github?

Is it possible that the "bombardment of questions" you claim was nothing more than a handful, maybe in the half-dozen or so range, of people who wanted to offer you emotional support because that is free for them to do while paying you for a product they did not want is not?

We don't all get immediate success. What matters is perseverance and determination - never giving up. Not making excuses for why the world failed you. You'll never get anywhere that way.

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