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Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

nirvdrum.com

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Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#51

Post by toomuchtodo »

mkremer90 wrote: post #24

Honestly, I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I have people that ask me to open-source my current side-project all the time (one that is paid), and I find it insanely disrespectful. "Yes, let me just hand over the source code for my commercial product. How about not." I'm not trying to sound greedy, but money speaks. If these companies want the software open sourced, they should be pitching in for the cost. If…

I'm not a developer, I'm a DevOps admin, so perhaps I don't understand as well as I would if I was a developer (blood, sweat, time, all that jazz).

I can see it being rude for people asking you to open source an ongoing concern side-project. But if your startup failed, your application didn't have any value in the marketplace (or you weren't able to execute).

As you said: "If you don't think something is worth money, you don't value it at all." If the market doesn't value it, and it failed, why would people pay to open source it?

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#52

Post by Kequc »

I'm always brought back to the time I decided to literally sell everything I had and leave the country. A few weeks before leaving I listed each item I had for extremely reasonable prices.

A $400 couch for $200, table for $20, beautiful custom framed long print of an old possibly rare poster for $50. Laser printer for $20. Ridiculously reasonable prices on everything on and on.

Nobody bought anything and every thing I managed to sell was preceded by an arduous process of "oh how about this much". Two days before moving out I listed everything I had left for free, which was basically everything. Immediately the phone was off the hook, people were leaving work to come pick up whatever it was.

What I'm saying is nobody pays shit for anything.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#53

Post by arjie »

I think this approach is both pragmatic and reasonable. You felt that open-sourcing the code has certain amount of value and the act of open-sourcing has a certain cost. If someone wanted that, they should have funded the crowdsourcing campaign.

It didn't work out because it seems everyone asking wanted it for free. That's their problem. You did everything right.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#54

Post by danielweber »

curun1r wrote: post #23
maaaats wrote: post #7

What I hate is that some people feel entitled to getting one's hard work for free.

The one group that I feel is somewhat entitled to the code is the customer base. Not open sourcing it is one thing, but I'd highly encourage the author to release the code as shared source with only his former customers. They're the ones that tried to help make his startup a success. They're not the freeloaders. If they end up giving the code to someone else, then so be it...he's not making any more money off it anyw…

There's an entire industry called "source code escrow" for this problem. If someone is concerned that you'll go out of business, you can escrow your stuff, and they can continue to run it and modify it. You can probably create a proper license so they can use it internally however they want but not sell it/give it away.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#55

Post by mkremer90 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51
mkremer90 wrote: post #24

Honestly, I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I have people that ask me to open-source my current side-project all the time (one that is paid), and I find it insanely disrespectful. "Yes, let me just hand over the source code for my commercial product. How about not." I'm not trying to sound greedy, but money speaks. If these companies want the software open sourced, they should be pitching in for the cost. If…

I'm not a developer, I'm a DevOps admin, so perhaps I don't understand as well as I would if I was a developer (blood, sweat, time, all that jazz). I can see it being rude for people asking you to open source an ongoing concern side-project. But if your startup failed, your application didn't have any value in the marketplace (or you weren't able to execute). As you said: "If you don't think something is worth money,…

You're completely correct in my opinion, but I'd like to add one crucial point:

If people are asking/begging for the tool to be open sourced, then they do indeed value it. Otherwise, why would they care if it just withered and died?

They may not have valued it as much as the product was charging for, but that's a different debate entirely. I'm assuming there was some discussion of commercial viability, lowering prices, etc. before they chose to shut down. (You pretty much said this part in your second paragraph, this is the "execution" part.)

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#56

Post by danielweber »

Kequc wrote: post #52

I'm always brought back to the time I decided to literally sell everything I had and leave the country. A few weeks before leaving I listed each item I had for extremely reasonable prices. A $400 couch for $200, table for $20, beautiful custom framed long print of an old possibly rare poster for $50. Laser printer for $20. Ridiculously reasonable prices on everything on and on. Nobody bought anything and every thing…

I've sometimes experienced the opposite, where no one wants it when it's free, but put a price tag on it and suddenly they have to have it right now.

Long ago I volunteered at a food pantry that "sold" food for $1 a bag, because (against what Econ 101 would say) people didn't act as entitled when they were entering a transaction.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#57

Post by ahlatimer »

danielweber wrote: post #46
barce wrote: post #15

There's a cost to open sourcing software. I like that the OP pointed that there was software that was sub-licensed and needed to be excised. Netscape took close to a year to open source their browser as Firefox using every significant company resource.

He should have always been (trying to be) aware of all the licenses he was using from the start. You can't just use any code you find on the net and staple it into your project.

There's a difference between knowing "I can use this" and "I can let you use this." Even if he was up to speed on his use of various bits of software, that doesn't mean he was fully aware of whether or not he could sub-license it. In fact, in one of the instances (the theme), he was distinctly aware that he could not sub-license it.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#58

Post by danielweber »

nirvdrum wrote: post #39
brianwawok wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Dump it in github with the right license, and anyone can fork it.

One reason is because you'll invariably be criticized for not merging some pull request.

Create an account with a throwaway address, put the project up, then walk away.

I have a few projects on Github that aren't under my name because I don't want to be pestered about them, ever. And I never have.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#59

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Kequc wrote: post #52

I'm always brought back to the time I decided to literally sell everything I had and leave the country. A few weeks before leaving I listed each item I had for extremely reasonable prices. A $400 couch for $200, table for $20, beautiful custom framed long print of an old possibly rare poster for $50. Laser printer for $20. Ridiculously reasonable prices on everything on and on. Nobody bought anything and every thing…

I think the problem with business is that until you are making a ton and have people beating down your door, this is how it feels - like no one pays for anything.

In fact people pay A LOT for tons of things, they just have so high of a bar or are so fickle about what they do buy that it seems like there is no way to figure out how to get them to buy.

Re: Open Sourcing a Failed Startup

#60

Post by markbao »

brianwawok wrote: post #36
brador wrote: post #33

There needs to exist a place to simply dump code with no obligations. One of his minor arguments against open sourcing was having to maintain the code base, and i've heard this from others too. With a dumping ground there would be no such obligation.

Why? Dump it in github with the right license, and anyone can fork it.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't be that easy—and I assume parent commenter is talking about a "code dump" that is not within legal limits. Original author wants to do things by the book:

    Setting all that aside, open sourcing the codebase is not some trivial process.
    And I'm not talking wanting to clean up stuff I might be embarrassed by. Here's
    a non-comprehensive list of issues that need to be addressed:

    - The web site design was a theme bought on WrapBootstrap that I don't have the
      rights to sublicense.
    - The rich UI widgets come from the commercial version of ExtJS. That needs to be
      excised or the whole project needs to be GPLv3.
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