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Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

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Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#101

Post by etherael »

jacalata wrote: post #98
etherael wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manservants is explicitly not an escort service ( http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-manservants-service-... ) ( http://manservants.co/become-a-manservant.html ), though. In both instances it's simply trading on the sexual market value of men or women (just because it's not sex doesn't mean the sexual market value of the person in question isn't relevant, see booth babes, ad et al). If you consider this to be mi…

Sure, I forgot the non-escort bit - although as you say, it is definitely about sexual attraction. However the defining point I made was that ManServants is explicitly joining that market of sexual market value, but Uber is adding that service to their existing commodity service which did not express interest in it. I consider it unnecessarily sexual to do the latter, but not the former.I consider it misogynist becau…

Avions was a marketing promotion for uber lyon where people could sign up for a free 20 minute ride with one of the models. I don't know if I see how that is "pushing" the service on the unwilling, but I acknowledge its not the same as having specifically gone to a single outlet vendor for a specific kind of service.

More like offering to have your photo taken for free with a cosplaying booth attendant at a convention for a non sexual product or using sex for advertising (terribly uncommon right?)

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#102

Post by [deleted] »

ivraatiems wrote: post #67
zaroth wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are rules and there are rules. Moral compass tells you which ones you can break, and often breaking the rule is the moral thing to do. So I think Thiel is calling them out for doing things morally wrong, not just rule breaking. Uber has lost their way. You break rules for a just cause, you get rewarded because you stuck your head out and took a risk. You put it all on the line. But you have to be willing to be…

You're not the only one in this comment thread to present this line of thinking, but I think you have explained it most explicitly, so I'll respond here. I think that this is a very charitable interpretation of what Theil said in this interview. He doesn't talk about morality or mention it at all, except in a passing use of the term "ethically challenged." That term, and the others like it that he uses ("push the env…

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#103

Post by prawn »

jboy wrote: post #14

OK, so it's obviously a little transparent of Thiel to say that Uber [a competitor to Lyft, a company in which he has invested] is "on the cusp" of going too far, but Airbnb [another company in which he has invested] has "a different feel" and is OK. But it's also a little ironic that the champion of "Competition is for losers", who says that monopolies can be a good thing for society [0], is against Uber trying thei…

Airbnb does have a different feel. As a user of the service, there are ways they could make it less frustrating (especially in big cities in peak times), but I never get the impression that they do anything but support their property owners and try to make them better at what they do. When I've had problems, they've solved them and given credit for replacement services.

I haven't heard of Airbnb doing anything underhanded to beat their competition. They are winning by doing the right things, from what I can tell.

And Uber could have achieved the same. Obviously the time is ripe for the service they're offering, but they're hustling (in the negative sense) more than working and that's why it feels different.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#104

Post by res0nat0r »

ghshephard wrote: post #31
ivraatiems wrote: post #11

Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…

I think close to 100% of successful entrepreneurs would agree with the statement "You can, and must break some rule, push the envelope, and engage in questionable behavior when building a company - the challenge is in always remembering where the line is, and never crossing it." Uber clearly crossed the line when their executives voiced out load their frustration with the media and then continued talking and imagined…

The report you are quoting from yesterday seems to be more Valleywag gossip talk for pageviews most likely taken out of context (look at all the internet rage it has generated just on this site) than actual evil wrongdoing.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#105

Post by VieElm »

res0nat0r wrote: post #104
ghshephard wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think close to 100% of successful entrepreneurs would agree with the statement "You can, and must break some rule, push the envelope, and engage in questionable behavior when building a company - the challenge is in always remembering where the line is, and never crossing it." Uber clearly crossed the line when their executives voiced out load their frustration with the media and then continued talking and imagined…

The report you are quoting from yesterday seems to be more Valleywag gossip talk for pageviews most likely taken out of context (look at all the internet rage it has generated just on this site) than actual evil wrongdoing.

No, that actually happened. The exec and his CEO have even admitted to and apologized for it. Not one of them has denied any of the terrible quotes attributed to the Uber executive.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#106

Post by res0nat0r »

VieElm wrote: post #105
res0nat0r wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report you are quoting from yesterday seems to be more Valleywag gossip talk for pageviews most likely taken out of context (look at all the internet rage it has generated just on this site) than actual evil wrongdoing.

No, that actually happened. The exec and his CEO have even admitted to and apologized for it. Not one of them has denied any of the terrible quotes attributed to the Uber executive.

Sure they stated they could also hire people to dig up dirt on the reporters private lives who are trying to write gossip articles about Uber exec's private goings on, I don't really see any issue with that.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#107

Post by jacalata »

etherael wrote: post #101
jacalata wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I forgot the non-escort bit - although as you say, it is definitely about sexual attraction. However the defining point I made was that ManServants is explicitly joining that market of sexual market value, but Uber is adding that service to their existing commodity service which did not express interest in it. I consider it unnecessarily sexual to do the latter, but not the former.I consider it misogynist becau…

Avions was a marketing promotion for uber lyon where people could sign up for a free 20 minute ride with one of the models. I don't know if I see how that is "pushing" the service on the unwilling, but I acknowledge its not the same as having specifically gone to a single outlet vendor for a specific kind of service. More like offering to have your photo taken for free with a cosplaying booth attendant at a conventio…

Are you making that comparison in actual ignorance of people objecting to booth babes, or in a deliberate attempt to invoke their objections?

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#108

Post by capkutay »

He's a great wordsmith. Disclosing upfront that he's an investor in lyft while also just saying uber is pushing 'a little too far'. He sounds totally transparent and rational right as he puts out the gouging statement 'extracting whatever they can from limo drivers'. That's enough to fuel a branding war between uber and all the other ride sharing services. Lyft can be a friendly service that empowers drivers while uber is slanted as a hegemonic power that sucks the life out of drivers and your wallet.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#109

Post by etherael »

jacalata wrote: post #107
etherael wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avions was a marketing promotion for uber lyon where people could sign up for a free 20 minute ride with one of the models. I don't know if I see how that is "pushing" the service on the unwilling, but I acknowledge its not the same as having specifically gone to a single outlet vendor for a specific kind of service. More like offering to have your photo taken for free with a cosplaying booth attendant at a conventio…

Are you making that comparison in actual ignorance of people objecting to booth babes, or in a deliberate attempt to invoke their objections?

It's a deliberate attempt to force people into consistency. If you object to sex being used for marketing of unrelated products that should always be true. Whether that's uber with avions, car or game companies with booth babes, or the "just squeezed" juice ads with continuously flexing male glutes or voodoo stocking etc etc etc.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#110

Post by jacalata »

etherael wrote: post #109
jacalata wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you making that comparison in actual ignorance of people objecting to booth babes, or in a deliberate attempt to invoke their objections?

It's a deliberate attempt to force people into consistency. If you object to sex being used for marketing of unrelated products that should always be true. Whether that's uber with avions, car or game companies with booth babes, or the "just squeezed" juice ads with continuously flexing male glutes or voodoo stocking etc etc etc.

Well, I do object to booth babes and the Uber promotion, I'm not familar with the others you mention. So no need to force anything. Many people have previously objected to boothbabes with the exact same arguments, and I don't see anyone saying one is OK but not the other, so I don't know why you are acting like there is some hidden inconsistency to be exposed.
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