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Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

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Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#61

Post by famousactress »

jboy wrote: post #50
famousactress wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I think you're putting words in his mouth suggesting these comments are anti-monopoly in this sense. I don't think in the abstract he's saying he's against a company like Uber striving for market domination.. he's just saying they crossed a line in that pursuit. As for AirBnB I think the Uber vs AirBnB comparison is a really fair one. AirBnB is a very similar example of a company doing serious disruption and faci…

I don't think that I'm putting words in his mouth. He's become famous recently for beating the "Monopoly good, competition bad" drum, but he's never really laid out a path to get to monopoly (other than "compete effectively, eg, win a niche and expand in concentric circles"). I suspect that a lot of people have (like myself) fit his comments into a larger patchwork of contrarian startup advice, which also includes su…

When discussing becoming a successful company lots of us don't consider it obligatory to mention that you also shouldn't threaten people.

I tend to suspect that he was comfortable with the idea that some limits to what's ethically reasonable were assumed.

For lots of us the fact that ethics are a given is what makes them ethics.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#63

Post by gordon_freeman »

ivraatiems wrote: post #11

Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…

At the end of the video where Thiel compares AirBnB and Uber in challenging ethics, he clearly says that AirBnB is empowering communities whereas Uber is 'exploiting' Limo drivers. Sounds pretty negative language to me for Uber.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#64

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

chrismealy wrote: post #17

When a guy who doesn't like women's suffrage says you've gone too far, that's saying something. http://gawker.com/5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-could...

Oh come on, that's completely unfair. He's not sexist, he just doesn't like suffrage for anybody: "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible."

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#65

Post by 001sky »

jboy wrote: post #50
famousactress wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I think you're putting words in his mouth suggesting these comments are anti-monopoly in this sense. I don't think in the abstract he's saying he's against a company like Uber striving for market domination.. he's just saying they crossed a line in that pursuit. As for AirBnB I think the Uber vs AirBnB comparison is a really fair one. AirBnB is a very similar example of a company doing serious disruption and faci…

I don't think that I'm putting words in his mouth. He's become famous recently for beating the "Monopoly good, competition bad" drum, but he's never really laid out a path to get to monopoly (other than "compete effectively, eg, win a niche and expand in concentric circles"). I suspect that a lot of people have (like myself) fit his comments into a larger patchwork of contrarian startup advice, which also includes su…

Get a patent. Become a monopolist.

Is that unethical?

No.

Build a great product that everyone uses volunatrily.

Is that unethical?

No.

Commandeer the bay bridge and charge tolls.

Is that unethical? Sure

None of that is relevant to Uber.

Uber is involved in regulated businesses.

Those are monopolies by law (eg, taxi medalions in nYc)

the monopoly nature is not by choice of lyft or uber.

the issues about ethics involve how the process to enter those markets is being pursued.

That is not just a business question, but one of pr, lobbying, and legislative changes.

The process is what it is. Has nothing to do with Thiel.

How the game is played is another matter-- that's what he's commenting on.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#67

Post by ivraatiems »

zaroth wrote: post #51
ivraatiems wrote: post #11

Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…

There are rules and there are rules. Moral compass tells you which ones you can break, and often breaking the rule is the moral thing to do. So I think Thiel is calling them out for doing things morally wrong, not just rule breaking. Uber has lost their way. You break rules for a just cause, you get rewarded because you stuck your head out and took a risk. You put it all on the line. But you have to be willing to be…

You're not the only one in this comment thread to present this line of thinking, but I think you have explained it most explicitly, so I'll respond here.

I think that this is a very charitable interpretation of what Theil said in this interview. He doesn't talk about morality or mention it at all, except in a passing use of the term "ethically challenged." That term, and the others like it that he uses ("push the envelope," "disrupt") are all corporatespeak/Silicon Valleyspeak and euphemism.

The statement is well-tailored to be against Uber's actions without speaking specifically to cause, and that raises alarm bells to me. The thing is, Uber is taking just as much risk doing something both morally and legally wrong as they are doing something morally right and legally wrong. It's the same discussion and the same innuendos from the business end. It's the morality end that gets the short.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#68

Post by onewaystreet »

pbreit wrote: post #40

Is there any hope that Uber could see some serious erosion in its business from all these gaffes? Could Lyft succeed by merely being the anti-Uber? On one hand, it does seem like Uber's ultra-agression has been an important contributor to its success. But could it have pulled all this off without the dirtbag gene? I'll finally be giving Lyft a try but wish they had black cars & SUVs.

Lyft's management hasn't looked anywhere near as competent as Uber's. They have gotten as far as they have by ridding in Uber's wake. Unless Uber destroys itself I don't see them pulling ahead.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#69

Post by famousactress »

meowface wrote: post #59
etherael wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is misogyny relevant to what he said or what is being discussed here?

Uber's executives are known for making some sexist remarks and just generally being douches. I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem, but Uber's hilariously stereotypical "frat boy" culture certainly seems to.

> I don't think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley has a misogyny problem

Okay, let's flip it then. What's the canary? What are signs that an industry/organization/culture has a misogyny problem?

I'd honestly love to see someone posit a reasonable litmus test that the Valley(slash-our-industry) doesn't qualify for.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#70

Post by chimeracoder »

zaroth wrote: post #39
etherael wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is misogyny relevant to what he said or what is being discussed here?

This particular incident involves Kalanick's targeting of PandoDaily Editor-in-Chief Sarah Lacy. Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late. I personally wouldn't speculate how Kalanick's rant might have changed if Sarah were male, but it has become part of the story.

> Sarah shined the light on various Uber failings of late

It's also relevant that she shone the light on various Uber failings, including several instances of misogyny (statements made by the Uber CEO, ads that sexualized women, etc.[0]).

It's not just that Lacy is a woman, though that's certainly part of it. It's relevant because this is how Uber chose to respond specifically to a woman complaining that they are misogynistic, not just to a reporter of unspecified gender accusing Uber of generally underhanded business practices.

[0] http://pando.com/2014/10/22/the-horrific-trickle-down-of-ass...

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