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Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

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Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#101

Post by wtallis »

xtrumanx wrote: post #94
wtallis wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best, people are imitating what they think Linus is doing. But most people miss out on just how rare Linus's rants are, how deserving his targets are when he does let loose and how much they should've known better, and most people aren't as authoritative as Linus.

> ...how deserving his targets are when he does let loose... I think I see the problem here. I don't follow the Linux community that deeply but I've read one of his rants which was belittling and insulting to a volunteer maintainer and the context behind it didn't justify the abuse in my opinion . If you don't appreciate their code, get rid of them. They're probably not trying to intentionally screw up. And if they a…

So you're saying that a "my way or the highway" policy is more polite and better for the health of the project and developer community than the occasional bit of colorful language? It seems to me that the former is a much bigger insult in an "actions speak louder than words" kind of way, especially coming from people for whom the primary concern is producing working code, not politics.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#102

Post by bramgg »

acdha wrote: post #97
dhughes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or #shirtgate when idiot "journalist" (The Atlantic's Rose Eveleth) went ballistic over Philae ESA Project Scientist Matt Taylor's shirt. Matt had a shirt on with women similar to WWII bomber girls, fully clothed in 1940s/1950s style corsets or as Rose Eveleth and her foaming at the mouth outraged Twitter followers say they are naked women. Some people get outraged at nothing these days.

I notice that you didn't even mention the many men who also complained about that shirt, to say nothing about attacking their professional competency. Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

Careful, you'll prove his point.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#103

Post by felixgallo »

tedunangst wrote: post #51
desdiv wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the horse's mouth: Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/post...

Oh! I assumed "tried" implied "tried and failed", but it seems the effort is ongoing? I guess the shutdown of Silk Road 2.0 will delay things for a while.

What was it that Gandhi said? First you sneer at people, then you lie to people, then when caught out you make up stories to try to get sympathy? Wasn't that it?

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#104

Post by zanny »

rbanffy wrote: post #75
techdragon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened. Gentoo is waiting to welcome all the systemD haters. OpenRC is going strong. We also support systemD as well because USE flags rock. In fact being able to see the sysV and systemD init files side by site was what finally convinced me it is an improvement. An improvement with many questionable additions... Like free money attached with losing my 25/20 eyesight to normal 20/20 or some other minor debilitat…

The Debian exiles will miss apt badly. Apt was what made me move from Red Hat.

Having used Zypper, Yum, Apt, and Pacman, I'd have to rank them pacman > zypper > apt > yum. Have you tried the others? Apt syntax is so cumbersome using either the Suse or Arch package manager.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#105

Post by acdha »

uselessdguy wrote: post #100
acdha wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice that you didn't even mention the many men who also complained about that shirt, to say nothing about attacking their professional competency. Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

A lot of people conveniently ignore that the shirt was actually made by a female friend of his named Elly Prizeman. The situation all of a sudden becomes completely different when you factor in that fact. Of course, it's easier to just heap in outrage.

I was aware of that but didn't mention it because it's not relevant to the question of whether that was a good wardrobe choice when representing you and your colleagues’ professional work for international media coverage.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#106

Post by pantalaimon »

georgemcbay wrote: post #43
icebraining wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the decent people who dislike systemd don't deserve that criticism, and the deranged people who issue death threats will ignore it.

Same issue as #GamerGate in that game "journalism" really is completely broken but now you can't talk about that without being lumped in with a bunch of vocal minority crazed misogynists.

Same people even. If you read the comment history of some systemd haters on reddit you'll more than once find that they are also engaged in #gamergate

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#107

Post by agumonkey »

Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

Beside the maintainer painful time, I find it interesting. We always see that FOSS is about freedom, if you don't agree, you can pick your own, fork, adapt ... except when a change impacts too much. The whole ecosystem is now changing forcing people to accept something too different, that's how things ends up emotional.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#108

Post by lamontcg »

Seems that Godwin's Law needs to be updated for 2014. As online discussion grows longer, the probability of doxxing and death threats approaches 1. And the standard corollary is the side which doxxes and issues death threats first automatically loses the argument.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#109

Post by cwyers »

Upon reflection, I don't think this is a systemd problem -- which is to say, many other distros (not even ones sponsored by Red Hat -- Arch, SuSE, Mageia, NixOS, etc.) have managed to switch to systemd as a default without this kind of a fuss. It's only Debian where this kind of a shitstorm has kicked off -- even Gentoo, which has been a rather vocal systemd holdout, offers systemd and doesn't seem to have this kind of political infighting about it. Now, yes, Debian and its downstreams have a large part of the Linux userbase, so there's apt to be more attention paid to it. But I'm starting to think this is a Debian problem, not a systemd problem.

And the reason I think that is because this isn't a question of whether or not people do or don't use systemd. It's a question of who is going to do the work to ensure that people who choose not to use systemd can continue to use popular packages like GNOME, etc. And to this end, Ian Jackson is leading a vocal group that is willing to use ANY means at hand -- the Technical Committee, General Resolutions, whatever -- in order to cudgel Debian package maintainers and upstream software into doing the work that they think needs to be done in order to support their desire not to use systemd. The problem in a volunteer project like Debian, forcing volunteers to do work they don't want to doesn't lead to the volunteers doing the work you insist they should do, it leads to volunteers leaving. And the upstreams are not going to respond to Jackson's quite frankly childish attempts to bully them into continuing to support sysvinit from now until the end of time. And until Jackson and his backers step into the breach to actually write freaking code to do what they want to instead of politicking to try and force others to write they code they want, it's going to continue to drag the Debian project into this kind of a mess.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#110

Post by JoshTriplett »

esaym wrote: post #56
SwellJoe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all of the valid criticisms of systemd, you've chosen an imaginary one. Systemd provides better process handling and failure reporting than the initscripts it replaces (and mostly better than upstart, as well).

I really wondered whether people would sympathize with me or just flame me. I guess I can explain my 'imaginary' problems a bit. Like normal people, I had several random things thrown in rc.local(set drive power settings,disable blue tooth on laptops, set raid sync rates,ect). The first issue was, systemd never even executed this file. I had to go do random googling just to get it to execute. After that, it was hit o…

    ~$ grep -r 'rc\.local' /lib/systemd/system
    /lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service:# systemd-rc-local-generator if /etc/rc.local is executable.
    /lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service:Description=/etc/rc.local Compatibility
    /lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service:ConditionFileIsExecutable=/etc/rc.local
    /lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service:ExecStart=/etc/rc.local start
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