Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

lists.alioth.debian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 166 posts

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#61

Post by Stratoscope »

uselessdguy wrote: post #53

I completely condemn such nonsense as a bunch of vitriolic people driving a distribution maintainer away from their position all because of their indirect affiliation with a controversial project. Such actions are why I identify with neither the systemd opponents nor the proponents. Unfortunately, it does dilute arguments against systemd, because of immediate associations with fools who attack people and scream falla…

> I have no idea why Linux attracts so much drama and carnage amongst its constituents, but it does.

It starts right from the top, just like the similar situation in the Rails community.

When your founder and leader behaves a certain way, it gives everyone in the community license to act like that.

Edit: I seem to have touched a nerve here. My apology to anyone my comment offended.

Nonetheless, I stand by the idea that the culture of a company or open source is heavily influenced by the behavior of those at the top. How could it not be?

As an example of the other end of the spectrum, when I worked at Adobe it was a remarkably courteous place where people treated each other with respect even when they disagreed. I really appreciated that, and I think a good part of it came directly from Adobe founders John Warnock and Chuck Geschke.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#62

Post by pekk »

With the top voted post being "systemd haters have gone too far," I find it worth mentioning that there is no relation between approving of death threats and thinking a systemd monoculture is a bad idea.

Death threats are wrong. Victims aren't to blame for death threats. On the other hand, that doesn't do anything to redeem systemd or dismiss criticism of systemd.

Unfortunately, now the meme will be that critics of systemd are dangerous lunatics because of the death threats that most critics of systemd never made or approved of. This (and procedural irregularities, etc.) exemplify the ugly "total war" tone that was instrumental in pushing systemd through. The death threats are inexcusable. But the poor tone and bitter feelings have roots in what was done to get systemd where it is today.

And if you are telling critics of systemd, who have nothing to do with death threats that "[they] are not welcome anymore in the community" - you are not contributing to the improvement of the tone. You are waging total war.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#64

Post by tedunangst »

tfheen wrote: post #48
chroma wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not publish the offending emails? As it is, those who threatened you face no repercussions. Their tactic worked, and they have every incentive to visit abuse upon others in the future. Edit: Thank you. I was under the impression that the emails were addressed specifically to you, not a mailing list.

They're on debian-devel, and I'm sure the hivemind fill find them quickly enough, but sure: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html (and yes, they got pushback, but it took approximately that much until people said WTF).

Thorsten has always been a jerk. I don't think systemd is a new trigger, but it's interesting to see him show up (though I'm not surprised). He used to haunt the OpenBSD lists a decade ago, but was basically sent packing after all his "contributions" were rejected.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#65

Post by techdragon »

eksith wrote: post #28
rbanffy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's bloody software. Worse. It's bloody open-source software. You don't like it, you fork the last version you did and start from there. If enough people agree with you, you'll be fine. If not, you are probably wrong.

Amen. Actually that would have been the better outcome anyway since it adds entropy to the gene pool. Cross pollination of ideas could have benefitted both parties. And even if your side doesn't take the cake, enough people would have flocked to the source that we could have fixed some bugs and resolved potential security issues due to the addition of more eyes. Looking from afar, you'd think this was some tiff over…

It happened.

Gentoo is waiting to welcome all the systemD haters. OpenRC is going strong.

We also support systemD as well because USE flags rock.

In fact being able to see the sysV and systemD init files side by site was what finally convinced me it is an improvement. An improvement with many questionable additions... Like free money attached with losing my 25/20 eyesight to normal 20/20 or some other minor debilitating affliction.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#66

Post by icebraining »

Tohhou wrote: post #45
georgemcbay wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same issue as #GamerGate in that game "journalism" really is completely broken but now you can't talk about that without being lumped in with a bunch of vocal minority crazed misogynists.

Congratulations you're now going to be accused of being a misogynist yourself for implying there is any legitimacy in #GamerGate's concerns. Anyone who doesn't fully condemn #GamerGate as a hate crime against women with no legitimate concerns, who doesn't claim it's purely just a smoke screen to attack women, is called a misogynistic rape apologist by these social authoritarian extremists. These anti#GamerGate people…

I've downvoted you because your post is inflammatory and off-topic. I actually have no opinion on the issue, since I barely know what it's about (nor do I really care to know).

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#67

Post by kristofferR »

tfheen wrote: post #27
dsl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does his gender matter?

Because I have loads more privilege than most, being white, male and from Norway.

Huh? The Norwegian police is still a police force (so they're naturally going to be slightly corrupt regarding the behavior of themselves/other police), and occasionally racist/evil - but they're actually pretty good compared to the police forces almost anywhere else in the world.

I don't see how being a white male in Norway would impact your criminal complaint in any negative way AT ALL.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#68

Post by jqm »

Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

I assume you mean the hatred and ugly talk needs to stop. With that I will agree and can see no reason anyone would think it a good idea to engage in this kind of behavior.

But this is not necessarily the dislike and rejection of systemd. These are not the same thing. Nor does the fact some people are behaving badly make systemd any more preferable to me.

Pottering's accusations that Linus somehow is responsible for the all the ugliness is over the top also IMHOP.

Again, not condoning ugly talk and specifically ill wishes. This is far behind acceptable behavior. But I don't like the idea behind systemd. I am worried about it growing. I don't need systemd. I don't want systemd. But as long as there are alternatives, I don't really care if others do.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#69

Post by jqm »

pekk wrote: post #62

With the top voted post being "systemd haters have gone too far," I find it worth mentioning that there is no relation between approving of death threats and thinking a systemd monoculture is a bad idea. Death threats are wrong. Victims aren't to blame for death threats. On the other hand, that doesn't do anything to redeem systemd or dismiss criticism of systemd. Unfortunately, now the meme will be that critics of s…

Exactly. There are very valid arguments against systemd that have nothing to do with being a "hater".

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#70

Post by esaym »

esaym wrote: post #56
SwellJoe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all of the valid criticisms of systemd, you've chosen an imaginary one. Systemd provides better process handling and failure reporting than the initscripts it replaces (and mostly better than upstart, as well).

I really wondered whether people would sympathize with me or just flame me. I guess I can explain my 'imaginary' problems a bit. Like normal people, I had several random things thrown in rc.local(set drive power settings,disable blue tooth on laptops, set raid sync rates,ect). The first issue was, systemd never even executed this file. I had to go do random googling just to get it to execute. After that, it was hit o…

In the end, I have had to rewrite my init scripts for custom stuff and do extra work and I am left wondering why I even tried it in the first place. The only speed difference (which from what I can tell is the only reason anyone uses systemd) I have seen is on my desktop machine. Start up is way faster, and shut downs too. Although strangely shutdowns hang randomly for over a minute sometimes. But on my laptops, I have noticed no difference.

In summary, systemd has not simplified my life. I am not really sure what the rave about it even is. And no, I am not the one threatening the developers. I really don't care enough. I just find it odd that so many praise it so heavily, and I don't feel that way at all. I also know of no sysadmins that are looking forward to its global rollout....

Post reply on HN