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Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

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Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#41

Post by chroma »

tfheen wrote: post #30
_Lemon_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but what happens if someone posts under someone else's name? It would probably be best not to perpetuate these things and to just end the vitriol now.

Given they're active on the list in question and while the content crossed a line, the style was not out of character, nor was it later claimed to have been posted by somebody else, so I think we can rule this out.

Why not publish the offending emails? As it is, those who threatened you face no repercussions. Their tactic worked, and they have every incentive to visit abuse upon others in the future.

Edit: Thank you. I was under the impression that the emails were addressed specifically to you, not a mailing list.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#42

Post by Joeboy »

cthalupa wrote: post #39
Alupis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

>when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software projec Has this ever been substantiated? From my understanding, the "death threats" were more along the lines of people saying awful things like "I hope Lennart gets run over", not "I am hiring someone to shoot you". Lennart made a comment about a bitcoin collection, but provided no actual proof. Personally, I'm skeptical - I've…

I will offer solidarity and hopefully absorb some of your downvotes.

Yes, it is clearly a joke.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#43

Post by georgemcbay »

icebraining wrote: post #19
Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

The problem is that the decent people who dislike systemd don't deserve that criticism, and the deranged people who issue death threats will ignore it.

Same issue as #GamerGate in that game "journalism" really is completely broken but now you can't talk about that without being lumped in with a bunch of vocal minority crazed misogynists.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#45

Post by Tohhou »

georgemcbay wrote: post #43
icebraining wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the decent people who dislike systemd don't deserve that criticism, and the deranged people who issue death threats will ignore it.

Same issue as #GamerGate in that game "journalism" really is completely broken but now you can't talk about that without being lumped in with a bunch of vocal minority crazed misogynists.

Congratulations you're now going to be accused of being a misogynist yourself for implying there is any legitimacy in #GamerGate's concerns.

Anyone who doesn't fully condemn #GamerGate as a hate crime against women with no legitimate concerns, who doesn't claim it's purely just a smoke screen to attack women, is called a misogynistic rape apologist by these social authoritarian extremists. These anti#GamerGate people are the same kinds of people who caused #ShirtGate.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2mdzaf/shirt...

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2mdzaf/shirt...

edit: the downvotes are hilarious way to go

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#46

Post by ctz »

nandhp wrote: post #36
tedunangst wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when someone actually tries to hire an assassin What???

https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/post... http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20130215.tx... (Ctrl-F hitman)

Is an IRC chatlog the best evidence we have that "this really happened"?

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#47

Post by tfheen »

jey wrote: post #40
SwellJoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TC had nothing to do with this particular developer leaving, and it is disingenuous as hell to suggest it. He is leaving the systemd package maintenance team at Debian because of threats and personal attacks, despite supporting the team.

Does TC == "technical committee"?

Yes.

(CTTE being another abbreviation)

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#48

Post by tfheen »

chroma wrote: post #41
tfheen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given they're active on the list in question and while the content crossed a line, the style was not out of character, nor was it later claimed to have been posted by somebody else, so I think we can rule this out.

Why not publish the offending emails? As it is, those who threatened you face no repercussions. Their tactic worked, and they have every incentive to visit abuse upon others in the future. Edit: Thank you. I was under the impression that the emails were addressed specifically to you, not a mailing list.

They're on debian-devel, and I'm sure the hivemind fill find them quickly enough, but sure: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/05/msg00585.html (and yes, they got pushback, but it took approximately that much until people said WTF).

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#49

Post by themoonbus »

georgemcbay wrote: post #43
icebraining wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the decent people who dislike systemd don't deserve that criticism, and the deranged people who issue death threats will ignore it.

Same issue as #GamerGate in that game "journalism" really is completely broken but now you can't talk about that without being lumped in with a bunch of vocal minority crazed misogynists.

I don't think you're a misogynist based on this comment. I just think the minority is bigger than you might imagine.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#50

Post by timtadh »

rakoo wrote: post #33
esaym wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish I could get over it. But every time some random process fails to start at boot time I...well I cry a little knowing this is what we are now stuck with.

"stuck" ? How was your init system choice enforced ? Did you have a gun pointed at your head ? Is there absolutely no working alternative ? You don't have to use systemd. If you keep using it when there are other working systems and you don't like it, the fault is entirely yours.

> "Did you have a gun pointed at your head?"

How did we get here? Because people on the internet continually use this highly charged language without regard. It is high time we as a community (at least on HN) commit to stop using such language.

We don't need to use such language. We don't need it. We can easily make our points without it. For example:

> "stuck"? There are many alternatives to systemd. There are many distributions which do not use it.

While keeping with the intent, this replacement no longer uses the violent language and also no lessens the attack on the parent commenter.

We should in general:

1. Not use violent language

2. Not attack commenters

3. Use non-adversarial language whenever possible.

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