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Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

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Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#31

Post by nandhp »

esaym wrote: post #15
Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

Wish I could get over it. But every time some random process fails to start at boot time I...well I cry a little knowing this is what we are now stuck with.

You're not stuck with anything. Any major transition will have bugs that need to be ironed out. In a year or two, assuming you don't switch to Slackware, it will be more reliable than sysvinit.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#33

Post by rakoo »

esaym wrote: post #15
Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

Wish I could get over it. But every time some random process fails to start at boot time I...well I cry a little knowing this is what we are now stuck with.

"stuck" ? How was your init system choice enforced ? Did you have a gun pointed at your head ?

Is there absolutely no working alternative ?

You don't have to use systemd. If you keep using it when there are other working systems and you don't like it, the fault is entirely yours.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#34

Post by tfheen »

toyg wrote: post #4
ZenoArrow wrote: post #2

Has anyone got some background information on this?

Systemd has always been very controversial.

That is not the point here, neither in my resignation or my blog post. Something being controversial does not mean it's ok to be a dick to the people pushing for it, which is the core of what I'm trying to say.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#35

Post by superuser2 »

dsl wrote: post #13
belorn wrote: post #10

Online harassment is harsh to handle. Death threats, stalking, threat of physical violence, and I can only imagine the look if a male developer went to the police and said that it is all because software he is developing on his spare time and giving out for free.

Why does his gender matter?

Cops' lives (in a particularly uncharitable interpretation) revolve around reinforcing their own masculinity by winning fights and exerting dominance. Using that to protect damsels in distress from creepy male others/sexual predators is a highly masculinity-reinforcing, fatherly/brotherly and desirable thing to do.

An effiminate man (using the again uncharitable notion that nerds with desk jobs are not manly in the eyes of police officers) walking into the station and asking for protection from other effiminate men is more likely to be seen as a pathetic whiner.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#36

Post by nandhp »

tedunangst wrote: post #24
Alupis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

> when someone actually tries to hire an assassin What???

https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/post...

http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20130215.tx... (Ctrl-F hitman)

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#37

Post by prawn »

dsl wrote: post #13
belorn wrote: post #10

Online harassment is harsh to handle. Death threats, stalking, threat of physical violence, and I can only imagine the look if a male developer went to the police and said that it is all because software he is developing on his spare time and giving out for free.

Why does his gender matter?

I think they're trying to say that a male might get a stereotyped police reaction that is "Toughen up!"

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#38

Post by desdiv »

tedunangst wrote: post #24
Alupis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

> when someone actually tries to hire an assassin What???

From the horse's mouth:

Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!).

https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/post...

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#39

Post by cthalupa »

Alupis wrote: post #17
NANDXORNOR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a horse in this race, but isn't it a good idea to as they say: 'don't give them a reason to hate you'. From what I've seen the good intentions behind systemd were marred by the fact that when it was announced the (mostly skeptical) responses to it were met by systemd supporters who held the attitude 'we're saving nix, join us or nix dies', and this has created the current atmosphere of debate. While thes…

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

>when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software projec

Has this ever been substantiated? From my understanding, the "death threats" were more along the lines of people saying awful things like "I hope Lennart gets run over", not "I am hiring someone to shoot you". Lennart made a comment about a bitcoin collection, but provided no actual proof. Personally, I'm skeptical - I've seen quite a bit of vitriol about systemd, but never anyone campaigning for bitcoins to hire a hitman. It seems like a rather easy way to bring a lot of discredit to your detractors.

Even the former is obviously not acceptable, but no one is being done any favors if we suddenly conflate an offhand mean spirited comment with actual death threats or attempts on someone's life.

Edit: Someone linked the actual conversation - http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20130215.tx...

It's obviously a joke and not an actual attempt to hire a hitman. They shortly after proceed to talk about how Red Hat has replacement clones if anything were to happen, anyway.

Is it a shitty joke? yes. Is it mean spirited? Yes. Is it the same thing as actually trying to have someone kill the man? No.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#40

Post by jey »

SwellJoe wrote: post #26
JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

So far, the last two TC decisions have been two-for-two in driving developers away; the previous one was the last straw that caused Joey Hess to leave.

The TC had nothing to do with this particular developer leaving, and it is disingenuous as hell to suggest it. He is leaving the systemd package maintenance team at Debian because of threats and personal attacks, despite supporting the team.

Does TC == "technical committee"?
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