Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

lists.alioth.debian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 166 posts

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#21

Post by rbanffy »

eksith wrote: post #18
NANDXORNOR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a horse in this race, but isn't it a good idea to as they say: 'don't give them a reason to hate you'. From what I've seen the good intentions behind systemd were marred by the fact that when it was announced the (mostly skeptical) responses to it were met by systemd supporters who held the attitude 'we're saving nix, join us or nix dies', and this has created the current atmosphere of debate. While thes…

"While these death threats and the like are in no doubt horrible..." Then let's stop there. No bridge is sacred enough to warrant physical threats when burned. No attitude poor enough to elicit the response that this did. It's bloody software.

> It's bloody software.

Worse. It's bloody open-source software.

You don't like it, you fork the last version you did and start from there. If enough people agree with you, you'll be fine. If not, you are probably wrong.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#22

Post by SwellJoe »

esaym wrote: post #15
Alupis wrote: post #7

It's time for this crap to stop. systemd haters have gone Too Far. Get over it. It's childish and pathetic now. Death threats to the creator. Personal attacks to volunteers. You have carried a debate into the extreme to where it is no longer noble. Just leave. Just stop. You are not welcome anymore in the community.

Wish I could get over it. But every time some random process fails to start at boot time I...well I cry a little knowing this is what we are now stuck with.

With all of the valid criticisms of systemd, you've chosen an imaginary one. Systemd provides better process handling and failure reporting than the initscripts it replaces (and mostly better than upstart, as well).

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#24

Post by tedunangst »

Alupis wrote: post #17
NANDXORNOR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a horse in this race, but isn't it a good idea to as they say: 'don't give them a reason to hate you'. From what I've seen the good intentions behind systemd were marred by the fact that when it was announced the (mostly skeptical) responses to it were met by systemd supporters who held the attitude 'we're saving nix, join us or nix dies', and this has created the current atmosphere of debate. While thes…

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

> when someone actually tries to hire an assassin

What???

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#25

Post by mschuster91 »

dsl wrote: post #13
belorn wrote: post #10

Online harassment is harsh to handle. Death threats, stalking, threat of physical violence, and I can only imagine the look if a male developer went to the police and said that it is all because software he is developing on his spare time and giving out for free.

Why does his gender matter?

In interactions with the police gender and race always matters.

Even in Germany, police can be a bunch of racist d.ckheads.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#26

Post by SwellJoe »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

So far, the last two TC decisions have been two-for-two in driving developers away; the previous one was the last straw that caused Joey Hess to leave.

The TC had nothing to do with this particular developer leaving, and it is disingenuous as hell to suggest it. He is leaving the systemd package maintenance team at Debian because of threats and personal attacks, despite supporting the team.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#27

Post by tfheen »

dsl wrote: post #13
belorn wrote: post #10

Online harassment is harsh to handle. Death threats, stalking, threat of physical violence, and I can only imagine the look if a male developer went to the police and said that it is all because software he is developing on his spare time and giving out for free.

Why does his gender matter?

Because I have loads more privilege than most, being white, male and from Norway.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#28

Post by eksith »

rbanffy wrote: post #21
eksith wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"While these death threats and the like are in no doubt horrible..." Then let's stop there. No bridge is sacred enough to warrant physical threats when burned. No attitude poor enough to elicit the response that this did. It's bloody software.

> It's bloody software. Worse. It's bloody open-source software. You don't like it, you fork the last version you did and start from there. If enough people agree with you, you'll be fine. If not, you are probably wrong.

Amen. Actually that would have been the better outcome anyway since it adds entropy to the gene pool. Cross pollination of ideas could have benefitted both parties. And even if your side doesn't take the cake, enough people would have flocked to the source that we could have fixed some bugs and resolved potential security issues due to the addition of more eyes.

Looking from afar, you'd think this was some tiff over imaginary lines on a map or something. Now that would be silly.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#29

Post by icebraining »

Alupis wrote: post #17
NANDXORNOR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a horse in this race, but isn't it a good idea to as they say: 'don't give them a reason to hate you'. From what I've seen the good intentions behind systemd were marred by the fact that when it was announced the (mostly skeptical) responses to it were met by systemd supporters who held the attitude 'we're saving nix, join us or nix dies', and this has created the current atmosphere of debate. While thes…

I'm pretty certain that when someone actually tries to hire an assassin to murder the creator of a free software project simply because they disagree with said software project, things have gone way, way too far. People who support systemd are not launching personal attacks, calling for physical harm against non-systemd supporters. This is a unidirectional attack. And it needs to stop.

Making it a "systemd critics" issue will just alienate sane people from the debate. Disliking systemd is not a club, requiring approval for membership. Even if this is a one-sided issue, that doesn't mean it's an issue of the whole side.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#30

Post by tfheen »

_Lemon_ wrote: post #16
bigiain wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From tfheen on the Slashdot thread: "I don't agree with them (at least not fully), but my resignation from the maintainer team is not about people being skeptical, it's about personal attacks, it's about death wishes from project members and it's about people escalating conflicts instead of trying to resolve them." Seriously, people sending _death wishes_ to developer or maintainers of software who's decisions/direct…

I agree but what happens if someone posts under someone else's name? It would probably be best not to perpetuate these things and to just end the vitriol now.

Given they're active on the list in question and while the content crossed a line, the style was not out of character, nor was it later claimed to have been posted by somebody else, so I think we can rule this out.
Post reply on HN