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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#841
post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tasks are pretty awesome and just about as convenient as Go-routines. Now if we could just get typed channels in .Net >:]

Doesn't rx fill that role?

With Rx you can do similar things but the semantics are different. When you use an Rx Stream you will get the data pushed from a different thread. With Go-like channels you pull the data from the other thread (or the channel).

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it was not really 'open' then, was it? More like "sources available for reading only" ..

Yes, but this open-ness is irrelevant to your point - "developers still want to know whats going on behind the curtain"

Then what you're saying is that this is hardly news, and hardly of note in any sense other than they're going to give the community .. what exactly?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just a low level drone here at MS, and I obviously am not involved in any important decisions, but I'd like to add that all the above things happened back when the current generation that works here was growing up. We were all on Slashdot, being outraged and angry 13 year olds. Except now my generation works here, and I think the changes (such as all the ones announced today!) are a good sign of that. At least si…

I would not hold it against you that you make a living with MS, that said in the present they do plenty of stuff that they really shouldn't. So it's not just the previous generation, the current one is also anything but clean.

One could say the same about companies and organizations that you admit to supporting as well.

So, if all choices are bad choices, what are you left with?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not mainly that free software threats their bottom line, it's rather that mobile and cloud is the future, and traditionally their bottom line was of course server and desktop. So they are being very aggressive in the cloud and mobile area which is understandable. But where does this leave .NET, visual studio etc? Those are no longer the tools with which megacorps make their intranets, or where Photoshop and Call…

Good points. Except: >But where does this leave .NET, visual studio etc? Those are no longer the tools with >which megacorps make their intranets, or where Photoshop and Call Of Duty is made .NET was never the tool where Photoshop and Call of Duty was made, but a significant amount of mobile apps and games nowadays are made using Xamarin and Unity, tools that run on top of Mono, a cross-platform implementation of .NE…

Sorry with the CoD/PS remark I was referring to their decision of making Visual Studio community edition, not the open sourcing of .NET.

VS will of course still be used by megacorps to make those huge apps, and ms will still charge them for it.

The free VS + open .NET just means single devs and startups have fewer reasons left to pick e.g node, jvm or Python as their platform. unlike before, these small players are very interesting since one of them is making the next minecraft and will host it on Azure.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#845

I feel like the last couple years I've been cheerleading for MS and telling people how much they've changed, how open things are becoming, and how awesome the development experience is. It's fallen on deaf ears or met with resistance, but today's announcements are really gonna drive the point home. Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. The Scotts (Hanselman/Guthrie), Miguel De Icaza and so many…

Until people understand the power and assistance that VS really gives you, it will mostly fall on deaf ears I think. The massive reduction in cognitive load w/ VS2013+ ReSharper is just astounding to me. Yet I've met, work with, and read opinions from people who claim it's a slow piece of crap dinosaur that does nothing but hinder development. You'll pry their Vim and Sublime from their cold, dead, brute-forcing hand…

I agree that VS and ReSharper together are a great way to code. If only they ran on other platforms. It's almost tragic.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO this works to Scala's detriment. I very much enjoy Python and Clojure precisely because they have one, generally accepted way of doing things. Is it a silver bullet? Of course not, but this works for me 9 times out 10 and I find that coming back to my code later (or sharing with colleagues) is far easier because most code will be structured in a familiar way and therefore take less time to understand the unique…

Actually that's the one thing that's driven me away from Clojure. I love the simplicity behind the language and it makes simple things actually simple - which isn't as trivial as it sounds. But once you start dealing with complex things in Clojure the language doesn't do much for you, if you can't fit your problem in to it's provided toolkit the code written will actually be horrible - for example go look at core.asy…

I think the nice thing is that you can start without types and add them later, staticlly or with dynamic checks. First I play around with data, once I know what I want I can write some schema annotation.

You can activate validation for everything in development and then in productive only activate validation on your api endpoints. In a future version, you will probebly be able to generate core.typed stuff directly from schema.

Other then that, I think extreamly high performace code a la core.async is not the norm, there the types are not used for the programmer, but rather for the VM. I have used type hints in the last couple of years maybe, one or twice.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#847
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing comments like this “I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past” always reminds me of this post from Hanselman http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx

Many people who hate Microsoft do it as a pavlonian response to years upon years of fighting against crappy Microsoft products. People who'd like to spend 90% of their time creating instead spend 25% creating, 30% watering it down enough to be easily "cross platform", and 45% of their time figuring out why-the-fuck-it-doesn't-work-in-Internet-Explorer. This is the same browser where merely calling console.log threw a…

The problem with this argument is that even if there were multible open source platforms you have "cross platform" problems. Any deversity will result in extra work. So you can either have the one thing to rule them all, or you will have to spend time on doing it for everything.

I admit that IE was shit and it did cost a lot of time. But how about we get over it? They admitied that IE was shitty and now they are doing much better.

There are products from other company that used to be shit, now they are better and people dont still hate on that.

Also, dont think im a idialist who does not remember the past, I was optimizing for IE6 not all that long ago.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually non-blocking logic becomes really easy, as you can always shove an immutable value into an atomic reference (note - I'm not saying "wait free", which still takes a lot of work :)) Why the atomic reference here? I know that provides CAS but if we're talking about a single writer aren't you okay to just replace things anyway?

Yes, I wasn't talking about a single writer. That was a new paragraph. Sorry about not making that clear.

Ah cool, just wanted to clarify as I'm only a beginner for much of this stuff, but found your posts very interesting.

Thanks!

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#849

After recently using Microsoft's online tools (OWA, web-based office, etc.) and the IOS version of OWA, I'm shocked at how bad the UX has become. Recently, there was a bug that makes the IOS OWS client replace its standard icons with emoji. It's been over 90 days and the bug is still not fixed. There have recently been a lot of bold decisions at Microsoft. If anything can turn around a dying company it's this kind of…

Not sure why the downvotes. I'm rooting for MS to be successful.

Didn't downvote you, but maybe because that sounds a bit anecdotal. Also for a "dying company", they do very well.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I have literally no idea how this post follows from the one you replied to?

> I'm sorry, but I have literally no idea how this post follows from the one you replied to? Literally? Well it is visually displayed under it and to the right :P

Damn, I liked my joke...
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