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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

news.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#641

Post by SamReidHughes »

jacquesm wrote: post #439
imanaccount247 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you think they are "fundamentally misguided" if you don't even know what they are? The category theory strawman is the absolute laziest, most absurd piece of FUD you could possibly resort to. It is even worse than the old "perl is bad because I don't want to read line noise" nonsense, at least that had some loose tie to reality.

Missed opportunity to explain why those are 'fundamentally misguided'.

GP didn't mention specifically which features were misguided, making a response require a disproportionate amount of effort compared to what he's put in. And he's talking complete nonsense about "category theory," which is just ridiculous so it's not like he's close to worthy of some effort-post.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#642

Post by [deleted] »

ssmoot wrote: post #558
jbooth wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view the collections library as a showcase for how that language works when you're designing an API to be used for 3rd parties. If it's incomprehensible, that worries me. If the collections API is purposely trying to confuse people, blame the Scala team, not me.

That's just BS and given the size of your axe to grind, you have to know it. Akka? Spray? ScalaUtils? Do they take effort to learn? Yes. Are they anything like scala.collections? No. Why didn't you pick scala.concurrent? Or scala.util? Or any number of other packages? Why didn't you use the signatures in the official docs as-presented? The Scala team goes out of their way to present something simple and easily digest…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#643

Post by pjc50 »

Guvante wrote: post #281
pjc50 wrote: post #138

The politics of this are interesting, and IMO related to the decline of the PC as a platform. Suddenly Microsoft is the outsider crying for "openness" and "freedom" while hammering on the gates of the Google/Apple ecosystem. For Microsoft, it's less bad if everyone switches to an uncontrolled platform than if they switch to a platform locked in by a competitor. The embrace/extend/extinguish logic works the other way…

> The politics of this are interesting, and IMO related to the decline of the PC as a platform. Why would this signal the death of PC? If anything this is most closely related to the death of Windows Server, since a ton of application development is done via the web.

I said "decline" rather than "death"; this isn't Highlander, there can be more than one platform. It's not as profitable and certainly not as trendy, but it's not vanishing yet.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#644

Post by recursive »

useerup wrote: post #527
jpgvm wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

async/await is HUGE. It opens an almost frictionless asynchronous pathway from your code all the way down to asynchronous capabilities of the underlying platform. Which was always the problem with leveraging async/overlapped IO: It was too complex and it turned your application logic inside-out because everything had to be performed in callbacks. async/await takes that on directly: You get everything executed in call…

FYI emcrazyone, it appears that you have been shadow-banned. I don't have any specific recommendations for your question, but I thought you should know.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#645

Post by Someone »

Great news, but something else drew my attention: the related stories. I got, among others:

"Microsoft Announces Windows 2000 Certification For Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers"

"Microsoft and Samsung Reveal Windows Powered Pocket PC For GSM/GPRS Networks"

"Microsoft Office 97 Family of Applications Honored With Industry Awards"

"Microsoft Invests in General Magic"

"Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 Beta Download Demand Overwhelming"

Ignoring the time machine aspects, I wonder what made their algorithm come up with these stories. They mention "Microsoft" and "Net", but that is about it.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#646

Post by Sir_Blake »

jacquesm wrote: post #436
com2kid wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just a low level drone here at MS, and I obviously am not involved in any important decisions, but I'd like to add that all the above things happened back when the current generation that works here was growing up. We were all on Slashdot, being outraged and angry 13 year olds. Except now my generation works here, and I think the changes (such as all the ones announced today!) are a good sign of that. At least si…

I would not hold it against you that you make a living with MS, that said in the present they do plenty of stuff that they really shouldn't. So it's not just the previous generation, the current one is also anything but clean.

What exactly are they doing today that you don't agree with?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#647

Post by pjc50 »

jpgvm wrote: post #327
aerique wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages have you got experience with that you feel C# is the best language you have worked with? And what makes it such a good language for you?

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

multiple competing event loops for instance

Fortunately Windows has implemented message-passing event loops for you for a couple of decades. And they're pleasant to work with as long as you don't mind everything being a WPARAM/LPARAM.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#648

Post by pjc50 »

Someone wrote: post #645

Great news, but something else drew my attention: the related stories. I got, among others: "Microsoft Announces Windows 2000 Certification For Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers" "Microsoft and Samsung Reveal Windows Powered Pocket PC For GSM/GPRS Networks" "Microsoft Office 97 Family of Applications Honored With Industry Awards" "Microsoft Invests in General Magic" "Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 Beta Download…

"Microsoft and Samsung Reveal Windows Powered Pocket PC For GSM/GPRS Networks"

.. in 2003, four years before the iPhone launch. I wonder how that one got messed up? Carrier brokenware? Inadequate hardware?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#649

Post by m_mueller »

jacquesm wrote: post #434
deeviant wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but would own an Apple product? That's terrible, they exploit horrible treatment of rightless Chinese wage-slaves. Would you use a google product? They are double-faced went in come to net neutrality, only putting their weight on points that promote their own benefit. They also buy up tons of extremely innovative start-ups, then suffocate them under the weight of their glacial bureaucracy and pedantic squabbli…

I'm sure you could go on all day but this thread is about microsoft. Apple's products are not welcome here because of their walled garden approach and Google has done far worse than making a faux-pas in the net neutrality debate. Agreed on the buying up innovative start-ups and then killing them off, that's really bad and acqui-hires are hurting all start-ups.

Im curious, can you really get by without MS, Google and Apple? No LLVM based products for you? No Webkit? No CUPS? No V8? If you do use some of these projects, where's the difference from an Open Sourced .NET?
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