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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#521

Post by yarou »

freehunter wrote: post #449
jacquesm wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure Best Buy reflects that poorly on Microsoft. Best buy didn't enter into it, you probably did not fully read the link. This was about Romania, not about the USA. > Again, doesn't reflect that poorly on Microsoft. It does, because IV is best described as a patent troll in a nice suit. > Is a software sales company supposed to not sell software? That's what they do. How does that reflect poorly on them? Be…

1. A Microsoft distributor != Microsoft. 2. Every major tech company is involved with IV, so stop shitting on just Microsoft. Go troll and derail someone else's comments. 3. That's called selling. I'm not going to argue with a nutjob anymore. I'm happy you're happy, and your original comment wasn't offensive. What is offensive is people like you (including you) constantly pulling this shit. Just ignore it. Just move…

For the record, jacquesm has been civil while detailing his criticisms of Microsoft. The irony of your post is that you are behaving like an asshole, but you don't see it that way because you are blinded by your loyalty to a singular entity or opinion/viewpoint. It's ok to disagree with someone (though I disagree with pg's stance on down voting b/c you disagree), but it's not ok to resort to name calling just to prove your point.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#522

Post by jakevn »

EpicEng wrote: post #479
jakevn wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[SerializableAttribute] [ComVisibleAttribute(false)] public class Dictionary : IDictionary , ICollection >, IDictionary, ICollection, IReadOnlyDictionary , IReadOnlyCollection >, IEnumerable >, IEnumerable, ISerializable, IDeserializationCallback Both languages can be difficult to decipher. I do find that Scala's syntax is much more flexible, which can lead to more stumbling when trying to read code.

Given proper indentation, ifall to see what is difficult to understand here. You have acouple of attributes, a generic you're declaration (with easy to understand syntax), and an inheritance list.

That's how it goes.

A Scala dev will look at the Scala type signature and shrug.

A C# dev will look at the C# type signature and shrug.

As usual, unfamiliar things are difficult and familiar things are easy.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#523

Post by tzs »

jacquesm wrote: post #289
tolmasky wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like countries, it doesn't necessarily make sense to treat companies like people when it comes to reputation. You shouldn't hold a grudge against a country forever, many of the people inside of it may have disagreed with its actions and more importantly the leadership could be completely different now. Similalrly, if most of the employees at Microsoft today are different than in the 90s and the leadership is com…

This is absolutely true but even in the present Microsoft has anything but clean hands: http://euobserver.com/political/125868 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Ventures http://www.networkworld.com/article/2466540/software/munich-... And on and on.

What in the third reference was intended to show unclean hands?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#524

Post by [deleted] »

jakevn wrote: post #343
jbooth wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find C# harder than this? trait SeqLike[+A, +Repr] extends Any with IterableLike[A, Repr] with GenSeqLike[A, Repr] with Parallelizable[A, ParSeq[A]] { self => or def :+[B >: A, That](elem: B)(implicit bf: CanBuildFrom[Repr, B, That]): That

[SerializableAttribute] [ComVisibleAttribute(false)] public class Dictionary : IDictionary , ICollection >, IDictionary, ICollection, IReadOnlyDictionary , IReadOnlyCollection >, IEnumerable >, IEnumerable, ISerializable, IDeserializationCallback Both languages can be difficult to decipher. I do find that Scala's syntax is much more flexible, which can lead to more stumbling when trying to read code.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#525

Post by dominostars »

djur wrote: post #278
FlyingSnake wrote: post #50

This is epic. Peter Thiel was right about creative Monopoly. The new Microsoft under Satya Nadella has totally changed the direction of Microsoft in just a few months. They had one of the best and rock solid development platforms and research division, and loyal customers. The new Azure cloud (Online + On Premise) along with the opening of .Net will change the playing field. I'm sure this is a great new for us develo…

> Peter Thiel was right about creative Monopoly. This is coming after a decade of Microsoft losing ground on the server side to Linux and on the consumer side to Apple. If anything, it shows the positive effects of keeping a large firm out of a monopolistic position.

Could somebody please shed some light on this? I'm having a hard time digesting Thiel's book, and I see this development as a perfect example of competition being positive.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#526

Post by tacticus »

smackfu wrote: post #172
jacquesm wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what they've done to receive such hatred. Hatred? I simply decide not to buy into a certain company's products and services because I recall some misdeeds from the past and that's equal to hatred? As for what they have done, I thought Microsofts history was chronicled enough that it doesn't need repetition, especially not on a website for 'hackers'. But if you need pointers, you can go visit groklaw.ne…

I think some people just have moved on. Heck, a lot of people here were not in tech when Microsoft was doing bad stuff. Stacker: 20 years ago. IE Antitrust: 10 years ago. SCO: 10 years ago.

Ok the brief they submitted in the java case was just last year. they believe that APIs should be copyrighted and should be controlled by those who build the first implementation. Which is just great news for anyone ever building anything.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#527

Post by useerup »

jpgvm wrote: post #327
aerique wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages have you got experience with that you feel C# is the best language you have worked with? And what makes it such a good language for you?

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

async/await is HUGE.

It opens an almost frictionless asynchronous pathway from your code all the way down to asynchronous capabilities of the underlying platform. Which was always the problem with leveraging async/overlapped IO: It was too complex and it turned your application logic inside-out because everything had to be performed in callbacks. async/await takes that on directly: You get everything executed in callbacks - only the callbacks are transparently created for you along with the necessary finite state machines so that your code still composes with exceptions, loops, branches working the way you expect - even across those "invisible" callbacks.

For server scalability as well as responsiveness on small devices (keeping number of thread low - even at one - while still serving the UI), that is really an advantage.

There is no "fakes" on the way - no extra threads being started just to wait for completion of an otherwise synchronous API. If the platform supports asynchronous IO/network/disk/database you can leverage that without any of the strange complexities of other languages.

Worth mentioning here is that Windows has an easier scalable and better designed completion oriented async model compared to the readiness oriented model of Linux - which is mostly limited to sockets anyway.

OS X has GCD - which is also a completion oriented model. I look forward to seeing how .NET with real global optimizing compilers from MS will do on OS X versus Linux versos Windows (on a Mac, obviously).

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#528

Post by alkonaut »

MichaelGG wrote: post #513
alkonaut wrote: post #401

I have been working with .NET for 11 years since 1.0beta (On the same application, i.e. have been continously pushing a massive codebase through every released version of the framework yet!), so to me this so huge. It has felt like I would have to go do Javascript, or go back to java, if I wanted to leave the .NET ecosystem or do something radically different. Not anymore. Feels like not just Windows-based server (as…

So, you'd rewrite in JavaScript versus dealing with Mono?

Not sure I follow you here, rewrite what?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#529

Post by alkonaut »

rip747 wrote: post #422
jpgvm wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

LINQ is _the_ only reason I tolerate .net

You mean C#? Let's keep those separate shall we?

Linq makes C# much better, especially compared to java. It's a whole different story in F# though.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#530

Post by ssmoot »

MrRadar wrote: post #383
jbooth wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find C# harder than this? trait SeqLike[+A, +Repr] extends Any with IterableLike[A, Repr] with GenSeqLike[A, Repr] with Parallelizable[A, ParSeq[A]] { self => or def :+[B >: A, That](elem: B)(implicit bf: CanBuildFrom[Repr, B, That]): That

Thank you! I'm working on a team that inherited some Scala code from contractors that no longer work for us and we've found that (at least their) Scala is almost as hard to read as bad Perl. Compounding this is a severe lack of good online documentation outside of the standard library reference and simple tutorials which don't go into the depths we need to know (like how do you create a Manifest from Java to call int…

I think you just need to hire an experienced Scala Developer for a month or two until your team gets up to speed. It'd be like a c# team having a Ruby app dumped in their lap. You're practically preordained to hate it. ;-)

The documentation for Scala is actually pretty outstanding IMO. I had a much easier time compared to Ruby. Daniel Westheide's introduction series "The Neophyte's Guide to Scala" is the single best language intro I've ever seen, for any language. It even goes into enough of Akka to get a basic chat application going. And while Akka works nicely with Scala, it's conventions are so different it might as well be a different language. In idiomatic Scala you probably don't run into mapTo or vars too often for example, but that's going to be a pretty common sight working with Akka.

At least the documentation on PlayFramework.com is mostly current, and doesn't gloss over important detail. Unlike rubyonrails.org, where even five years ago the basics were horribly dated, inaccurate, and skip important background.

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