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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

news.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#461

Post by bad_user »

jbooth wrote: post #420
bad_user wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a Scala developer that signature makes sense. You want to add an element of type B to your collection with elements of type A, however the addition of an element of type B may not be supported (e.g. you may want to add a String to a BitSet and get in return a plain Set[Any]), so the above works only as long as there is a builder available that can build the new collection. The function also works on covariant col…

I agree that Option types are great, so great that I'm happy to work in a much 'weaker' language, use option types, and solve 90% of the problems that more 'theoretically robust' languages address with none of their downsides. As far as not understanding how awesome immutable data structure are.. I'd take a step back before you make assumptions about what other people understand. Do you know anything about cache hier…

> Do you know anything about cache hierarchy and memory models on modern CPUs?

Yes I do. Worked 3 years on a soft real-time system with massive load, profiled the shit out of everything. There's an interesting discussion we could have about when immutable data-structures work best, when they've got problems and when it doesn't matter, especially given the extra benefits in dealing with accidental complexity. This isn't the right place though.

> Performance is important to some of us

Yes it is, but performance problems are fixed by means of profiling and optimizing the bottlenecks. Even in a system that has massive load, in many cases in doesn't matter and in some cases immutability increases performance by eliminating contention on reads. And seriously, most people invoking performance problems are not having those performance problems to begin with, therefore my assumption.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#462

Post by bad_user »

rasmuskl wrote: post #446
bad_user wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a Scala developer that signature makes sense. You want to add an element of type B to your collection with elements of type A, however the addition of an element of type B may not be supported (e.g. you may want to add a String to a BitSet and get in return a plain Set[Any]), so the above works only as long as there is a builder available that can build the new collection. The function also works on covariant col…

Oh btw C# does have immutable collections now. Adoption isn't too high yet AFAIK, but they're pretty awesome.. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn385366(v=vs.110).a...

Interesting, thanks for the link.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#463

Post by eyko »

SCHiM wrote: post #355
jpgvm wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

You know what I also really like about C# is the .net runtime. I know that allot of people dislike it because there's so much leftover stuff from previous versions, however despite this it's one of the most comprehensive runtimes I've every worked with. Want to make a screenshot of the desktop? Got it. Want to post keystrokes to another application? No problem. Ohh I see you want to write a tcp server with asynchrono…

> Ohh I see you want to write a tcp server with asynchronous processing? Here's some generics you can just c&p.

So we've come to the point where copy-pasteability is a language feature? Tell me I can use a library or module. Tell me that the language comes with built in features to help me do this or that. But never tell me I can copy-paste generic code. Please.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#464

Post by martin1975 »

shmerl wrote: post #374
aerique wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too little, too late IMHO. Also MS has always come across as very opportunistic, giving the impression they will drop support for this if it serves them better.

That's my feeling as well. No amount of opening stuff can fix their reputation at this stage. Unless they'll completely drop all their crooked practices, which is not likely.

They could switch to Linux and drop Windows. That would surely revive their image in my view. Is it April 1st already?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#465

Post by 300bps »

jacquesm wrote: post #77

It's funny how Nadella has moved the needle more for developers in 9 months than Ballmer did in the last decade or so, and all that without running around like a madman too. Pretty good. I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past but it is nice to see them try hard to become a nicer player in the software eco-system. Google and Apple need some other party to keep them sharp, it might as well be MS…

I'm not sure if there is any topic I am passionate enough about to post 22+ comments on a single HN news story about.

You must really, really dislike Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#466

Post by teacup50 »

jbooth wrote: post #352
tome wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the choice is between having to write null-checks or having to understand category theory to read my code Me too. Luckily this is a false dichotomy.

Here's a random line from the Scala standard collections library: def :+[B >: A, That](elem: B)(implicit bf: CanBuildFrom[Repr, B, That]): That This is from the standard collections library. In Java, I've got a List.add function. In case it's not clear from the name, 'add', I can click through to the implementation and it's pretty obvious what's happening. In Scala, I've got +, ++, +:, :+, and a bunch of other nonsen…

You're conflating a lot of unrelated issues here by lashing out against things you seemingly don't understand.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#467

Post by yarou »

imanaccount247 wrote: post #397
jbooth wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much less experienced with Haskell than with Scala, so I might be unfairly painting it with the same brush here. But, for example, https://www.haskell.org/tutorial/io.html . At the end of the day, this is a huge inner-framework anti-pattern over the same procedural syscalls that every other language handles procedurally. I shouldn't have to care what a monad is, and side effects? The whole point of I/O is side ef…

>At the end of the day, this is a huge inner-framework anti-pattern over the same procedural syscalls that every other language handles procedurally. No, you have a tiny, very simple type that allows for type safe IO. It also happens to make haskell a more powerful imperative language than most imperative languages, as IO actions are first class and can be passed around and manipulated like anything else. >So, basica…

To be fair, understanding I/O in Haskell takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics. :)

The I/O monad modifies the Universe that contains the set of all functions that comprise your program (if I even understand the concept correctly).

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#468

Post by edwinnathaniel »

orf wrote: post #332
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, hopefully this pushes Oracle to refocus, reinvest in Java. Competition is good. Microsoft still have megatons of work to do to catch up Java (mindshare or tooling wise).

Really? I think they are catching up fast on the mindshare front. Java is not cool anymore, it's grey and verbose, and I think C# has got nicer features. Also VS beats the pants off Eclipse any day.

Silicon Valley is all OSS/Java.

ElasticSearch, Hadoop, Cassandra, HBase, HDFS (mixed with C).

Newer infrastructure for big-data are either Java, Scala, Clojure (one or two tools).

Some of the startups also use Java (not all). I rarely see C#. So yes, C# is not catching up yet.

Sorry, Eclipse + Ecosystems (that include plugins/integrations and whatnot) = beats VS any day (with or without pants). And if you have money, IntelliJ is right around the corner circling VS.

I think people don't realize that comparing the Java and .NET requires dragging the community, the platform, the tools, the plugins, and everything else in-between.

I granted in Windows/Desktop .NET is the king. Everywhere else it's the other way around by a long margin.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#469

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

Animats wrote: post #336

Is this an abandonware move? Does it mean .NET is on the way out, and Microsoft's way forward is something else? A year or two ago, Microsoft was talking about the future of application development being Javascript/HTML/CSS.

I doubt it. The .NET ecosystem is strong and C# is still the only way to write code for Windows without growing to hate the platform.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#470

Post by jayvanguard »

Never in Microsoft's history have they ever followed through on a promise of multi-platform support for their infrastructure. They've tried multiple times but they always end up bailing on it or half-assing it to death.

I wouldn't believe them this time either.

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