Does anyone know which state prisons have a gluten free option? I need to figure out where to commit my next offense.
Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
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Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. There are a bunch of international covenants and agreements that disagree with you. This document talks specifically about food: http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner... Your misrepresentations of the reasons some people are vegan or vegetarian are so severe it makes the conversation pointless.…
The document you linked to does not protect personal choice of diet. > 2.3.9 European Prison Rules > See para (1.2.4) above for an explanation of the European Prison Rules. Rule 22 states “Prisoners shall be provided with a nutritious diet that takes into account their ... religion, culture ..." > 2.4 Vegetarian and Vegan diets > In some countries, the food provided to all prisoners may be vegetarian (non-vegetarians…
The argument isn't about whether they do (clearly they don't, based on the article), it's about whether they should.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Vegan doesn't mean higher quality. It can mean a large serving of beans and broccoli.
Which makes the whole discussion rather bizarre. So you don't want meat slop on beans and rice, fine, take two scoops of rice and beans instead without the slop. Don't want pancakes and bacon, fine, take an extra pancake instead. If the servers won't cooperate, trade a slice of bacon to your neighbor in exchange for a pancake. I suppose you could intentionally sabotage someone by putting bacon in with the beans, so j…
> trade a slice of bacon to your neighbor in exchange for a pancake
That's what I did when I spent a week in jail (as a vegetarian). I ate fine, but had I been strictly vegan it may have been a different story.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well there is a major distinction here. We aren't talking about "i don't care for meat." We are talking about someone's deeply held convictions on morality. Oftentimes vegetarianism is a major part of their identity and culture. A vegetarian diet can be part of a relgious practce. Plenty of Indian religions emphasize a vegetarian diet - Jainism, Hinduism and Buddhism. As well as well as the Seventh-day Adventist, a C…
How do you test the depth of one's convictions on the morality of various diets? Do you think that people can willfully choose their own convictions?
People can willfully choose their own religion too but it is considered unethical to force a group of people to convert to your preferred religion. In fact that can be considered a form of ethnic cleansing in some situations.
FYI - i personally am a vegetarian (for over a decade) for ethical reasons and being forced to eat meat would be extremely horrific for me. And i don't think that i would be able to eat fish at all without vomiting. Feel free to make fun of me or whatever.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#175>There was no concern for his vegan diet I can't be the only one that thinks it's ridiculous for a prison to accommodate voluntary diets like this.
Is it really much different than Jews keeping Kosher or Muslims keeping Halal? Prisons are for punishment for crimes that we consider significant enough to jail people, they don't have to dehumanize the prisoners. The cost of 'specialty' food for a few tiny percent of prisoners is a minuscule figure in the total cost of imprisonment, and could easily be accommodated within the wider food offerings. If every meal had…
Well said. Basic human rights.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
The document you linked to does not protect personal choice of diet. > 2.3.9 European Prison Rules > See para (1.2.4) above for an explanation of the European Prison Rules. Rule 22 states “Prisoners shall be provided with a nutritious diet that takes into account their ... religion, culture ..." > 2.4 Vegetarian and Vegan diets > In some countries, the food provided to all prisoners may be vegetarian (non-vegetarians…
The argument isn't about whether they do (clearly they don't, based on the article), it's about whether they should.
Not really -- the direct parent of my comment was making the point that ethics are indeed a reason to obey prisoner's dietary desires. As I pointed out -- they are not.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
I seriously doubt quality of food is a factor in reoffending rates.
And you're wrong. Food quality is a small piece of the big puzzle of how prisoners are treated, which obviously affects how they will reintegrate in society, which is something that recidivism rates measure. Prisons should not be about punishing people. Punishment would lead to just more drain on society. I would have hoped we'd have outgrown this childish yearn for revenge in the 21st century.
I still doubt good quality macaroni causes people to get out of prison and not steal more cars.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
But he didn't go to a maximum security prison at all, infact he was at Västervik a "säkerhetsklass 2" prison. [2] "Säkerhetsklass 1" would be a maximum security prison, class 3 is the lowest class and those don't even have walls meaning that a class 2 would essentially be a "vanilla" prison.[1] [1]: http://www.kriminalvarden.se/fangelse-frivard-och-hakte/fang... [2]: http://www.kriminalvarden.se/hitta-och-kontakta/ve…
Furthermore, the prisons in the nordic countries are among the few in the world which actively do practice rehabilitation rather than just "suck", as OP expressed it. I believe that is the reason the vegan diet was brought up as a big deal - he was treated OK in most other regards, especially when considering how prisons work in other parts of the world. Take a look at this documentary: http://arenan.yle.fi/tv/242866…
Yeah I agree, I am however somewhat surprised that they didn't manage to provide him with vegan meals. I mean it shouldn't be that difficult im sure they already offer vegetarian alternatives.
Very interesting show!
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the US, the prevailing strategy of prisons for handling all 3 aspects is to make getting caught so shitty and destructive for the person involved that people don't do things that would lead them there. You can, of course, view any number of metrics to identify how well this is "working".
Prison being shitty covers retribution and deterrence. Prevention is provided merely by having strong walls and razor wire. If somebody is locked in a cell, then they will be physically unable to rob the local liquor store. How well or poorly they are treated is irrelevant in that regard.
Why not let the cops simple shoot the man once convicted ? Isn't that retribution, deterrence and prevention all in one ?
People should know a-priori the consequences of their actions. Otherwise it is very likely that there is will be manny shitty prisons and some VIP cool prisons.
Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
To counter your anecdote: I was vegetarian for 26 years (and had been vegan for 5 of those years) and I had no problems eating beef, mutton, lamb, or pork. Anecdotal evidence is stupid and pointless (includng my anecdotal evidence) and it's weird to see it so often on HN.
Wait, why is it stupid and pointless in this case? We have multiple anecdotes indicating people have had problems; we have at least one indicating people don't. This is, to me, clearly evidence against both "Everyone has problems" and "Nobody has problems" and in favor of "Some people have problems", and for the specific policy question at hand, we're trying to evaluate "Some people have problems".
I suspect - but can't be sure without some form of experiment - that just like it took time to get you to adapt to not eating meat it will take time to re-adapt to eating meat again. The only way to be sure is by sticking to a meat diet for a longer time after going vegetarian for long enough that you're no longer supporting a set of bacteria that can easily digest the meat.
I'm not sure how long that would take and if it would happen with all people but just like it takes a while before newborns can digest food properly I suspect that a similar adaptation would not happen overnight in adults that radically change their diet from one set of foods to another.
Apropos: vegetable matter is far harder to digest in general than meat (due to plants having cell walls that need to be broken down first).