121–130 of 207 posts
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on HN, it depends. a greedy corporate fat cat that cheated people? punishment. Drug or copyright infringement related crimes? rehab.
And why so you think that is? (I'm withholding my opinion/explanation until I feel I understand yours and can provide a more valuable response)
It's pretty rich that almost this entire thread is arguing about the prison not respecting Sunde's vegan wishes and his personal wealth and ideals. There are more than ninety comments here and all of them hang off nearly-dead comments. The entire point of prison is to suck, otherwise it wouldn't serve its role, which is to deter crime. Louis CK has a bit about this in one of his recent specials: ...but we really need…
The fact that he went to high security holding and didn't have access to his normal diet are entirely related as part of the oppressive nature of prison that goes beyond just removing someone from society for a period of time.
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Short term savings for long term costs. How much is recidivism costing the US right now? They have made massive savings per prisoner but their reoffending rates are 60% Vs. 30% for Sweden.
And you think recidivism in the US is based on the food? Prison food is so good people can't wait to commit more crimes and get back inside?
Parent post argues that forcing inmates to eat food they consider immoral contributes to their "fuck the Man" mentality, and contributes to the recidivist mentality.
By spinning that into an argument about prison food being so good as to attract reoffenders, you are being childish and dishonest.
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Well if (I assume) you're coming from the mindset of how US prisons treat their inmates, expecting prisoners to be treated with any kind of humanity at all would certainly seem rediculous.
Well if (I assume) you're talking about the prisons that aren't max-security, it's not very ridiculous at all. Most of the inmates in our prison system are treated "with humanity."
This is not true whatsoever. Fundamentally, if the system that feeds prisons treated people with humanity, a large number of people would never be prisoners in the first place.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Either both are a choice or neither are a choice, depending on how you define your terms. Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reason…
> Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Agreed > Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. This means, if you are not eating meat because you simply feel it's wrong -- well, the prison has…
There are a bunch of international covenants and agreements that disagree with you.
This document talks specifically about food: http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner...
Your misrepresentations of the reasons some people are vegan or vegetarian are so severe it makes the conversation pointless. Some people have beliefs about eatig meat that are equivalent to religious belief.
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>Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second Says who? Punishment (beyond the punishing nature of the denial of one's freedom) need only be a part of prison because some peoples' (defective) morality demands it. The first priority of a prison is to protect the people at large from the expected behavior of convicted criminals. >Of all the consequences of breaking the law, being forced to eat something you don't…
It sounds like many of us in this thread might be talking past one another confusing normative and positive claims about the purpose of imprisonment.
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You missed the affiliate links - they also peddle crapware for $$$, in addition to the ads and popups that might be blocked. Even if 1/2 their traffic is using adblockers that still leaves billions of ad impressions a month. There is no reason to believe their lies about how much servers cost, especially on a site like HN where many people have first hand experience of more elaborate hosting costs and advertising. 20…
On the flipside, I cannot imagine clickthrough rates and impressions that lead to purchases is high on a site that markets itself as a place to pirate digital content even for those not using adblock. And the nature of the site can deter larger advertisers from using it. I'm not saying they made no money, but I doubt it would have been as lucrative as if those page views were dedicated to, say, www.wickerbaskets.com…
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There are a lot of things I don't like to eat and I'm pretty sure that I would find eating in prison quite troublesome, regardless of what the food is. It's one of the many prices you pay for breaking the law, but surely losing your freedom and seeing the world move on without you should dominate this unease?
Well there is a major distinction here. We aren't talking about "i don't care for meat." We are talking about someone's deeply held convictions on morality. Oftentimes vegetarianism is a major part of their identity and culture. A vegetarian diet can be part of a relgious practce. Plenty of Indian religions emphasize a vegetarian diet - Jainism, Hinduism and Buddhism. As well as well as the Seventh-day Adventist, a C…
It's pretty rich that almost this entire thread is arguing about the prison not respecting Sunde's vegan wishes and his personal wealth and ideals. There are more than ninety comments here and all of them hang off nearly-dead comments. The entire point of prison is to suck, otherwise it wouldn't serve its role, which is to deter crime. Louis CK has a bit about this in one of his recent specials: ...but we really need…
> The entire point of prison is to suck, otherwise it wouldn't serve its role, which is to deter crime. Prison serves many purposes other than punishment - one of which is rehabilitation. Making someone's life miserable for several years, purely to punish them, does nothing in the long-run - hence why re-offending rates can be so high.
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Well there is a major distinction here. We aren't talking about "i don't care for meat." We are talking about someone's deeply held convictions on morality. Oftentimes vegetarianism is a major part of their identity and culture. A vegetarian diet can be part of a relgious practce. Plenty of Indian religions emphasize a vegetarian diet - Jainism, Hinduism and Buddhism. As well as well as the Seventh-day Adventist, a C…
How do you test the depth of one's convictions on the morality of various diets? Do you think that people can willfully choose their own convictions?