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Independence Day

news.microsoft.com

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Re: Independence Day

#61

Post by kieranajp »

NLips wrote: post #46

My one quibble with the article is that calling Reading a suburb of London is quite misleading. I understand (North?) Americans use the word differently to Europeans on the whole, but Reading is a Medieval town with a net commuter flow inwards - it's the local hub of economic activity, and is the largest town (it hasn't got city status) in the UK. For context, in terms of its economy, size, distance from London etc,…

This really bothered me in the article too, though I'd always assumed Reading was a city (it certainly _feels_ like one!) - thanks for the info on that

Re: Independence Day

#62

Post by pbhjpbhj »

stevenjohns wrote: post #24
xyclos wrote: post #16

"a reminder you're walking by a place with great Chinese takeout" is this just a way to target ads at people with a disability? if all I'm trying to do is get form point A to point B, the last think I want is "interesting facts about history" or targeted ads.

It could be an incentive for shop owners to install such a beacon, thus increasing their frequency and improving the system. I doubt they would be ads, but rather just the name of the store and maybe some sort of rating reference or something.

>"I doubt they would be ads, but rather just the name of the store and maybe some sort of rating reference or something." //

That sounds like an advert to me. Shop owners will consider the ROI, if they think there are enough blind people with such a device that will be attracted in to spend by use of this system they'll get it. It's an advert, like a shop window display, surely.

Re: Independence Day

#63

Post by Retric »

NLips wrote: post #46

My one quibble with the article is that calling Reading a suburb of London is quite misleading. I understand (North?) Americans use the word differently to Europeans on the whole, but Reading is a Medieval town with a net commuter flow inwards - it's the local hub of economic activity, and is the largest town (it hasn't got city status) in the UK. For context, in terms of its economy, size, distance from London etc,…

We often call smaller city's suburbs of larger ones. DC 'suburbs' extend out 60+ miles and include several mid-sized city's. "Greater Metropolitan area" is often a better term. EX: Fairfax city is in a similar location relative to DC and takes 1h 20min to get their by subway, it's also inside fairfax county which has ~1Million people. However, large numbers of people commute from west of Fairfax into DC.

So IMO, it's consistant when you look at overall traffic / commuter flows.

Re: Independence Day

#64

Post by wnevets »

kaptain wrote: post #26

It's disappointing to see the cynicism and negativity directed to this announcement. Yes, the presentation is a bit lacking: the website is difficult to read for many and the video seems to be a big ad. But the message is so hopeful. I'm not blind/visually challenged/whatever the correct terminology is, but this announcement/description/advertisement made me happy. It made me happy not because this is another channel…

Hating on Microsoft is a lazy way to get "e-cred" regardless of the actual topic. If this was announced and presented the exact same way by Apple it wouldn't receive half of the negativity.

Re: Independence Day

#65

Post by Dirlewanger »

kaptain wrote: post #26

It's disappointing to see the cynicism and negativity directed to this announcement. Yes, the presentation is a bit lacking: the website is difficult to read for many and the video seems to be a big ad. But the message is so hopeful. I'm not blind/visually challenged/whatever the correct terminology is, but this announcement/description/advertisement made me happy. It made me happy not because this is another channel…

It's absolutely awesome. It beats the typical crap on here about some start-up coming up with a not-really-needed solution to a millienial's already-cushy life.

Re: Independence Day

#66

Post by reuven »

My sister-in-law recently became blind after many years of declining sight. It is heartbreaking to see how difficult even the most seemingly simple journeys have become for her. (And I'm quite impressed by the way that she has been pushing herself, even though it's clearly quite difficult for her.)

I think that the video is a bit too optimistic about how easy it can be for blind people to walk around. But I also think that the idea -- using a combination of smart phones, Bluetooth and Wifi markers, and headphones -- is a very clever one, and is a very good start.

It is going to take decades for such a technology to become stable and mature. But I'm impressed and pleased to see Microsoft investing in such technologies.

Oh, and are they hinting that there might be ads aimed at blind people? Yes. I don't know how that is any different from Google offering "free" e-mail and search in exchange for ads. My metric for whether this is worthwhile isn't whether Microsoft puts up ads, but rather whether blind people benefit.

Re: Independence Day

#67

Post by hrktb »

radiorental wrote: post #59
hrktb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me is that the most important part of this project is to get a lot of existing entities to do something for the visual impaired people (e.g. put bluetooth devices everywhere, create sevices to push the information to users), and I feel this part of the project is brushed away in a "we have great ideas, surely everyone will be conviced to make them possible" attitude. There is already realtime tracking of…

'There is already realtime tracking of the train delays where I live, and it just doesn't work' The important point is not that the data is flawed, it's accessibility to that data. Leveling the playing field.

That the data is already accessible. It has an app, it has a website. If you can use the accessibility features of any smartphone then you have access to it.

The leveling of the playing field you mention is not some moonshot, some dream to hold dear to one's heart. It certainly can still be done better, but it's already done competently.

Re: Independence Day

#68

Post by hrktb »

pataracts wrote: post #52
hrktb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me is that the most important part of this project is to get a lot of existing entities to do something for the visual impaired people (e.g. put bluetooth devices everywhere, create sevices to push the information to users), and I feel this part of the project is brushed away in a "we have great ideas, surely everyone will be conviced to make them possible" attitude. There is already realtime tracking of…

Should we dismiss ideas because they don't work as intended right now? All I see here is room for improvement. Rarely, if ever, do new approaches work perfectly the first time around, and the problem is especially complex. Regardless of how Microsoft profits from this, it is still a good idea that could improve the lives of millions of people. If a company can make money while improving the lives of people, that is a…

I think I might be grumpy, but it's hard for me to share the hyperbolism of this PR piece on the importance of the experiment. To put it differently, this PR story should be written when this experiment expends to London as a whole and is ready to actually take the world.

In a way, this is another instance of the "ideas don't matter, implementation does" mantra. It's not their ideas that will change millions of people's life, it's the implementation, and what is presented doesn't seen revolutionary nor reliable nor scalable to me. I'd want to be proven wrong, of course.

Re: Independence Day

#69

Post by NLips »

Retric wrote: post #63
NLips wrote: post #46

My one quibble with the article is that calling Reading a suburb of London is quite misleading. I understand (North?) Americans use the word differently to Europeans on the whole, but Reading is a Medieval town with a net commuter flow inwards - it's the local hub of economic activity, and is the largest town (it hasn't got city status) in the UK. For context, in terms of its economy, size, distance from London etc,…

We often call smaller city's suburbs of larger ones. DC 'suburbs' extend out 60+ miles and include several mid-sized city's. "Greater Metropolitan area" is often a better term. EX: Fairfax city is in a similar location relative to DC and takes 1h 20min to get their by subway, it's also inside fairfax county which has ~1Million people. However, large numbers of people commute from west of Fairfax into DC. So IMO, it's…

I think the term loses a lot of meaning if used just for the same distances in the UK as in the US. Particularly because the main consensus for 'suburb' seems to be that it's a residential area, which the commuter flows suggest that Reading is not. Perhaps the best benchmark is merely whether a place is treated as a sub-district (albeit far-flung) of a city? I'd say that doesn't apply to Reading, but perhaps the same is true of Fairfax.

Your final remark is a little confusing - what is consistent looking at commuter flows? You mentioned that large numbers of people commute from west of Fairfax into DC, and I said Reading has a net influx of commuters. Those statements don't directly contradict each other, but certainly don't explicitly agree!

Re: Independence Day

#70

Post by pataracts »

hrktb wrote: post #68
pataracts wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we dismiss ideas because they don't work as intended right now? All I see here is room for improvement. Rarely, if ever, do new approaches work perfectly the first time around, and the problem is especially complex. Regardless of how Microsoft profits from this, it is still a good idea that could improve the lives of millions of people. If a company can make money while improving the lives of people, that is a…

I think I might be grumpy, but it's hard for me to share the hyperbolism of this PR piece on the importance of the experiment. To put it differently, this PR story should be written when this experiment expends to London as a whole and is ready to actually take the world. In a way, this is another instance of the "ideas don't matter, implementation does" mantra. It's not their ideas that will change millions of peopl…

Fair enough, thanks for replying.
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