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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

theguardian.com

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Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, happens even to the best companies in US. Microsoft employment agreement stipulates that if you quit earlier than one year, you have to pay back all relocation expenses (visas, temporary housing, etc). Easily tens of thousands of dollars.

Relocation expenses are different, and if you're really concerned about it; you are not required to use the relocation benefits. As some supporting evidence that the relocation package is different than wages, wages are taxable and a qualified relocation expense is not.

The end result is that you are on the hook for $10k+ if you decide to quit Microsoft - very similar to the amount charged by Indian outsourcing companies in the article. There are legitimate expenses beyond visa fees that companies incur to import foreign worker and any company will want to be compensated for them if employee quit early.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they have an I-485 application pending for six months and an approved I-140 That is related to a green card. And yes, employers typically try to file your I-140 under EB-3. This means that you need to wait 10+ years before your priority date becomes current. Once the PD is current, you can file your I-485. After another 6 months elapse, ONLY THEN can you invoke AC21. In effect, the employee is tied to the employ…

My understanding was that while you wait your priority date to become current, you are not locked to your current employer. I think this was one of things that AC21 fixed. There is a 180-day period following your I-140 approval during which you are locked to the employer that filed your I-140, but after that you are free to switch to another employer, as long as your new position will be substantially similar to the…

> Changing employers after 180 days have elapsed should not affect the underlying approved I-140.

Employers can actually withdraw the I-140 if you switch jobs BEFORE filing I-485 and letting 6 months elapse - and then you have to start all over again.

http://www.murthy.com/2008/01/18/ac21-frequently-asked-quest...

The green card has become the new "leash" for H1Bs.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#153
post #118

At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem. "The guy at XYZZY will ask about h…

My first thought was: I can't image how anyone could work for a place like that. That HR person should have been fired on the spot.

My tolerance for bullshit this is quite low and luckily I work for a start-up where I have to take very little of it. When stories like this come up, I keep shaking my head.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#154
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, Facebook, at least, says that it does not use labor brokers: Some companies say they shun labor brokers; a Facebook official told CIR that her company does not use them. Others who rely on them renounce the abuses but are quick to deflect responsibility.

Facebook, Microsoft and others do end up using consulting firms like Cognizant, which generally provide them H1-B immigrant workers. The conditions of their employment, at least in my eyes, are similarly predatorial in nature.

Can you provide a reference about Facebook using Cognizant? I can't find one in my search.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that "tied to" implies that you can't change jobs? But that's not the case with H-1B workers. You can switch jobs at will, and even work multiple jobs (with concurrent petitions) at the same time. Furthermore, AC21 enables you to begin working as soon as your next/future employer has filed a petition – so you don't have to wait until USCIS makes a decision. With a good employer and attorney, USCIS will…

I'm 99% certain actually being on the payroll of multiple companies while on H1B is a felony. You can still be working for your original employer while your petition with the new one is underway, or start working with the new one once you receive your petition receipt, but definitely not both at the same time. I'm not sure what industry you're in, but 20k out of a software dev's 60k-100k salary is a very very big dro…

I'm 99% sure you can be on the payrole of 2 companies at the same time.

http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/holding%20multiple%20h1b%20v...

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#156

Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an average american techie. However, the H1B worker is not aware of his rights. The average H1b worker has no one to turn to for help as the people who are most vehemently against H1B have racist and xenophobic agendas. I speak from experience : while on a H1B VISA (and in middle of a unpleasant work situation), I sought help by seeking out t…

> Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an average american techie.

I would like to disagree on this point, however I have never conducted any long-term research nor seen any conducted. My anecdotal experiences though definitely seem to indicate otherwise.

I think it's first important to clarify that by me making the statement that an H1B is less qualified than the average American tech worker, I am not saying that due to their race. I think that the process is broken and exploitative, and it encourages and incentivizes companies to specifically bring in people who are under-qualified. Let's take two possible scenarios:

A: Shyam excelled at the top of his class while attending school in India and managed to be accepted to receive a government scholarship to attend school overseas. With much glee he heads off to the US on his student visa to get his degree from a university there and get earlier exposure to new ideas and techniques. While there, he does an internship during the summers his sophomore and junior year with a local tech company. As graduation nears, he applies for and receives a green card, choosing to permanently reside in the US. Afterwards he begins his job search, starting with a position he is hired at with the company he interned with his junior year.

B: Deepak did not do so well in school, but knows that he wants to work in the technology field because it's a good way to make money and gain social status so he can date and marry the girls he is interested in. Unfortunately, he didn't meet the requirements for an overseas scholarship, so he attends an Indian university instead. Afterwards, he goes to work for a large Indian technology firm (Infosys, Wipro, et al). During his entire professional experience to this point he and his colleagues have been slogging away doing things mostly incorrectly, but with many hours so that their clients appear to be getting a good deal. After doing this for a number of years, he realizes he's got to get out of India and this situation, so he reaches out internally and gets accepted for a staffed role through his firm. Happily heading overseas to the US he arrives in California with his shiny new H1B working at a big American tech company on behalf of the staffing firm, only to realize that he's been thrust into a position intended for somebody with 5 years of useful experience, not the 3 years of useless experience he's had. He's way under-qualified, and struggles to keep up. He tries but is just not experienced or educated enough to handle the situation well, so finds himself in the exact same slog of burning more hours to do things less efficiently to meet deadlines.

I'm kind of hamming it up here, obviously, but my point is that for the most part there is absolutely no quality control from the perspective of the people who busted their ass, proved themselves, and have succeeded in their careers who are now working alongside people who are under qualified brought in under the guise of a staffing agency hiring H1Bs.

Nobody has a problem working with Shyam from situation A, but they would have a problem working with Deepak from situation B. It's not an issue of xenophobia or race as you seem to make it out to be, and it's not that we don't care or empathize. But we're at work to get our jobs done and we all have goals. If you're an engineer at the top of your game working on some exciting new technology, the last thing you need is to have your project derailed by inefficiencies, bugs, or outright bad actions from someone who is not experienced or qualified enough to be involved, but through the foibles of management found themselves there anyway.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#157
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>but I also keep seeing this $20,000 number thrown around a lot. That's how much it costs for a company to apply for an H1B. To clarify, the actual application cost varies between $2500 and $5000[1]. The problem is that on most years, the visas are given only to a percentage of the applicants. For example, if someone is switching from OPT to H1B and they don't win the RNG game, the cost to the company can be enormou…

> For example, if someone is switching from OPT to H1B and they don't win the RNG game, the cost to the company can be enormous. No, the fees are returned if the petition isn't selected.

Only the petition fees, which are a small portion ($1500?). The lawyers fees aren't refundable.

Some lawyers do charge up to $15,000 for H1Bs, and I've heard of people reasonably paying $8000. (Good lawyers are definitely in the $4000 range, though you can bring thing down considerably by using inhouse lawyers, which is probably what big companies do).

So if we assume that lawyers cost $2000 per petition for large companies, and that there's a 33% success rate in the lottery (it was 50% last year), we're still talking only a cost of $6000 per hire.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#158
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but not reasonable.

The US government does the same thing to the American students they give "CyberCorps" scholarships to. They have an obligation to remain in government jobs for the same number of years that they received the scholarship for and if they want to leave early they have to repay the scholarship. https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

For private companies in the US, I've never encountered having to repay training expenses. (Though it wouldn't surprise me if there were obligations around getting a degree program paid for and that sort of thing; I've never been in that sort of situation.) However, I have seen a company go after relocation expenses from someone who was moved cross-country and, shortly thereafter, quit.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#159
post #28

I think it is terrible that companies are taking advantage of foreigners, but I also keep seeing this $20,000 number thrown around a lot. That's how much it costs for a company to apply for an H1B. The companies should not be using that to prevent people from quitting, but it is a very real, large expense to getting workers from out of the US. The flip side of the argument isn't great either. If Softcorp or whatever…

There's no lease. An H1B worker can switch companies freely with little hassle. It's the L-1 visa that has a lease. Congress passed a law in 2000 called 'AC21' which brought job portability for H1B workers. I don't know why I keep hearing people on HN and elsewhere talk as though AC21 never happened over and over again. Please have the sense to do some basic research before forming your opinions. Lastly the cost to t…

I have switched jobs under AC21, and I have since gotten permanent residency.

While you can change jobs, your new employer has to both be one that wants to handle H1-Bs (and many smaller ones don't). On top of that, if you were applying for an employer-sponsored green card, like most H1-Bs want to do, then guess what? You have to get your new employer to sponsor you too, depending on the part of the process you are in. And while asking an H1-B to pay for his own visa costs is illegal, as far as I can tell, asking someone to compensate the company for legal fees trying to obtain a still pending green card does not. In my last job before the green card, I had a nice 20K anvil hanging over me if I left before green card +1. And that process took about 7 years, thanks to visa limits. So yeah, I could have changed jobs again, but it would not have been cheap for me.

And all of that, while knowing that getting laid off leads to either leaving, or staying in the US illegally for a small period of time, which is one of the few reasons the USCIS agents can find to end up denying a green card application.

So I am glad AC21 exists, but the freedom an American has and the one an H1-B visa holder have are nowhere near equivalent.

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