Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I’m Terrified of My New TV

brennancenter.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 346 posts

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#291

Post by mikeash »

tmuir wrote: post #103
bruce511 wrote: post #19

I'm probably not normal, but frankly I would just leave it unplugged from the Internet. At the end of the day my current tv does what I need to do (ie act as a big monitor) without an internet connection. Given the number of devices already floating around here for browsing the web, I don't really need my tv to do that. For streaming I have Chromecast or whatever. I get that tv makers want to sell me something, but t…

I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services. I suppose the economics aren't as straightforward, but I'm of the opinion that Chromecast, Roku, AppleTV, etc are the next layer of crippleware. A small form factor Windows box or a Ma…

My Apple TV is basically just an AirPlay receiver. My "workflow" is: navigate to video I want to watch on my iPad or iPhone. Select Apple TV as the output. Press play. Watch.

No remote control is going to come close to that sort of convenience. A wireless mouse certainly doesn't qualify.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#292

Post by loup-vaillant »

authatheist wrote: post #270
loup-vaillant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck trying to convince people to merely get rid of their government. We need an alternative, and the mere lack of government is not it. It will be perceived as chaos, and few people actually want chaos. In other words, even if we don't want rulers we still need rules. We need a system. Actually, we will have a system, anyway. even "no system" is a system. It's just not clear how it would actually work at the mo…

We keep having to tell people that having no ruleRs doesn't mean having no ruleS. If by "no system" you mean "freedom", that's fine with me. Sure, we need rules and negative consequences for breaking them, but that does not require rulers.

You're different from that straw-man libertarian I once met.

"Freedom" is an ideal, not a mechanism. The question is, which mechanism promotes freedom?

Personally, I currently bet on democracy. Not representative governments, but democracy, which we don't currently have. Like in ancient Athens, where people where chosen by random trial, instead of elections. (Plus a host of checks and balances, before during, and after whatever short mandate was given.)

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#293

Post by lbotos »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #271
imgabe wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that exactly how Google's voice recognition works? And Siri's too I assume? Your phone doesn't have the processing power to do speech-to-text on the fly, so it sends it to a server to do it. I don't see a vast government conspiracy behind this. If they can make the TV a bit cheaper by putting in a less powerful processor and taking advantage of the always present high speed Internet connection, of course they w…

> Your phone doesn't have the processing power to do speech-to-text on the fly, so it sends it to a server to do it. This is what I don't get. I used to play with Microsoft's SpeechAPI back in 2007 and it was pretty decent at real-time speech recognition - almost perfect, if you limited your program to a pre-defined command grammar. It was all done completely off-line, real-time on a machine that had much less proces…

While I agree that a component is revenue, I also think the "big data" factor of it is important. All of those usage stats (Where/when/what was said/) would definitely help to shape future products and integrations. (50% of people want to order pizza, maybe we should integrate some pizza thing vs. the 5% that want to do advanced math, etc)

EDIT: I'm also one of those guys who's like "no I'm not signing up to X service because they don't need more data about me" but I get the double-edged sword and how more of the right data makes certain decisions easier.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#294

Post by brokentone »

higherpurpose wrote: post #185
downandout wrote: post #155

I wasn't particularly disturbed by this article until I got to the following passage regarding the "Voice Command" feature: "Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party." I don't think there is a prison horrible enough to send these people to. There is NO legitimate reason that an always-on…

The TV looks like a Samsung.

Stock image.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#295

Post by freehunter »

tmuir wrote: post #275
freehunter wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A wireless mouse always trumps a remote. Absolutely not. I do not want a mouse being used at my couch. I do not want my movie interrupted with Windows Update. I do not want to fiddle with XBMC or some other hacked together, unintegrated system. I subscribe to the Unix philosophy when it comes to my home entertainment. I have a stereo that only plays audio. I have a TV that only plays video. I have a set-top box that…

Perhaps Windows would be a problem, but I've been using a Mac Mini in this fashion for 3 years now, and have never once been interrupted by OSX. Would you at least concede that everything else being equal, there is no faster input to start media than with a mouse? Every TV/Set Top remote interface I've ever used requires at least 3x the steps of the equivalent with a mouse, because you have a D-Pad. Maybe DVD players…

But I don't want to point. That's far too interactive for any media player design. Even PC-based things like Winamp, iTunes, or Windows Media player, it's just a list or at best, a grid. I don't need to have more than eight directions of movement, and just four is sufficient. If I'm going through a list with a mouse cursor, there's a chance I can move the cursor off that list, necessitating that I have to then move the cursor back to the list before making my selection. That's just poor UX.

A mouse is completely unnecessary when you just have a grid or a list, a directional pad is more than sufficient. You can scroll just by going to the bottom of the list and continuing to go past that, which is how all menus work. It's not about how many steps it takes with a remote vs a mouse, it's about the UX of that specific UI. I don't want a desk in front of my couch. That's what remotes solve. I have a computer in my office and a media player in my living room, and I don't want to trade that for anything.

Can media player UIs be improved? Yep. With a mouse? Not in my opinion.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#296

Post by HCIdivision17 »

diminoten wrote: post #137
rqebmm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but there's a bigger problem than the mere fact that a lot of data is being collected. It's how transparent companies are about the data that's collected, along with how long it's stored and who has access to it. One might be fine with having their TV scan their face, but does that mean they're okay with that scan being transported to someone else's servers? Who now owns that information? Can the manufa…

I think the readers of this website vastly underestimate how much the average person understands, and vastly overestimate how much the average person values their privacy. It's starting to get annoying, the folks who want to start a "privacy revolution" even when no one's asking them to.

There's the joke about anecdata to be had here, but I've found the people I talk to do care and value their privacy, and they are coming to a slow realization that there's a creeping ... creepiness to it. At least with the people I interact with regularly (most of whom aren't technologists), the average person is getting slightly annoyed by having to keep an eye on their gizmos as they slowly hear more about the devices betraying their trust in a myriad small ways.

And I think that's where the revolution foments. Momentum builds slowly, but it seems to be there, simmering and slowly heating over the years. Those folks calling for revolution now are just impatient and louder.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#297

Post by DennisP »

downandout wrote: post #155

I wasn't particularly disturbed by this article until I got to the following passage regarding the "Voice Command" feature: "Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party." I don't think there is a prison horrible enough to send these people to. There is NO legitimate reason that an always-on…

So we finally have Orwell's telescreens, and we're paying our own money to install them in our houses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#298

Post by loup-vaillant »

authatheist wrote: post #266
loup-vaillant wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the rest of the cartel can launch a denigration campaign against the defector, or poach the defector's employees, or other shady means that money can buy, even in a "free society". And of course, I wouldn't rule out outright criminal behaviour. I recall being told about a board meeting where they discussed triggering an "accident" to get rid of polluting chemicals, because it was cheaper than abiding to the count…

How would the remaining cartel members cause harm to the defector by badmouthing him? If the guy is selling X for half the cartel price, and can point to the cartel members and tell people how they've been screwed by them, what do people care aboit what the cartel scum is saying anymore? Nothing. They'll just buy X for 50% cheaper. You know you would too. Who are trashing the planet? Ordinary people, or big corporati…

It's not just about price. It's about quality, durability, planned obsolescence or lack thereof, external costs (like pollution overseas or child labour). Many important things that are often hidden from the customer, preventing a fair evaluation of the true price: total cost of ownership, including external costs.

> Who are trashing the planet?

Everyone of course. Some people more than others, and as you suggested, some people are more responsible than others. But in the end, we're all caught up in this system. Heck even writing and reading this comment takes energy, and sits on top of one of the most polluting industries (computing).

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#299

Post by squeaky-clean »

tmuir wrote: post #103
bruce511 wrote: post #19

I'm probably not normal, but frankly I would just leave it unplugged from the Internet. At the end of the day my current tv does what I need to do (ie act as a big monitor) without an internet connection. Given the number of devices already floating around here for browsing the web, I don't really need my tv to do that. For streaming I have Chromecast or whatever. I get that tv makers want to sell me something, but t…

I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services. I suppose the economics aren't as straightforward, but I'm of the opinion that Chromecast, Roku, AppleTV, etc are the next layer of crippleware. A small form factor Windows box or a Ma…

>I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services

Most of these devices are priced at less than $50. Chromecast, Amazon Fire TV Stick, a Roku. I don't know where you're finding multiple hundred dollar devices.

> A small form factor Windows box or a Mac Mini are superior to every set top media player on the market in every category but price

My Roku is cheaper, quieter, uses less power, uses a real remote, doesn't require any installation or maintenance aside from initially inputting my username/passwords. I can search Netflix/Amazon/Hulu from one search bar on my home screen. I don't see any advantages a full PC has other than "it does things unrelated to TV", which I just don't care about. I don't want to write emails or check Facebook from my TV.

>The best interfaces for all of those services are the full websites.

For using them on a computer, maybe. But interfaces need to be different for different devices. What works on a 14" laptop or 24" monitor does not work well on a 60" TV. For example, Steam's Big Picture mode vs the desktop mode for gaming.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#300

Post by johnnymonster »

This is the reason why I buy the "Dumb" TV version, and its cheaper too. No reason my tv needs to be hooked up to the internet, have apps, or a camera/microphone! I just need it to display images, I don't even need it to output any sound! If I could pay less for no speakers that would be awesome!
Post reply on HN