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I’m Terrified of My New TV

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Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#131

Post by serf »

bcx wrote: post #106
tedks wrote: post #47

We need a Butlerian Jihad against surveillance. You know what will never stop this? Posts on hacker news. Letters to your congressman (LG can donate a fuqton more to his re-election campaign than you can). Voting with your dollar (people who know what a privacy policy is are few and far between). You know what will? Taking these TVs into the street, smashing and burning them. Mobs storming Best Buy and smashing the s…

Out of curiosity how many aspects of this TV could also be applied to your laptop. 1) It has a webcam 2) It has a microphone 3) You install software all the time that has access to both of these things. 3) Practically everything you do on it is tracked, cookied, and shared. (Sure some companies probably respect Do-Not-Track, but everyone?) 4) Do you realize that facebook knows your age, all of your friends, your demo…

yeah, but there are answers for a laptop to nearly every one of your bullets.

I can't modify the hardware on a television reasonably, I can't change the operating system reasonably, nor can I modify the loaded software. I can't choose to run the server that it phones home to.

I can remove my laptop's webcam, or order one without. Same for a mic (lenovo/dell/hp have 'government specials' -- laptops without mics/cams/antennas), I can review the software I install, I can change it, etc. I can run my own email server.

One system enables the user to have power over the system itself, one doesn't. We need to stress the importance of users' power and ensure it for the future.

Don't buy such walled systems until the walls are removed so as to enable them to be functioning members of our user-centric society, rather than their profit-centric walled garden.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#132

Post by jamesaguilar »

tmuir wrote: post #103
bruce511 wrote: post #19

I'm probably not normal, but frankly I would just leave it unplugged from the Internet. At the end of the day my current tv does what I need to do (ie act as a big monitor) without an internet connection. Given the number of devices already floating around here for browsing the web, I don't really need my tv to do that. For streaming I have Chromecast or whatever. I get that tv makers want to sell me something, but t…

I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services. I suppose the economics aren't as straightforward, but I'm of the opinion that Chromecast, Roku, AppleTV, etc are the next layer of crippleware. A small form factor Windows box or a Ma…

> every category but price

Don't forget convenience. That is not a little thing.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#133

Post by rhizome »

authatheist wrote: post #111
sounds wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's interesting to watch you take the contrary position on an internet forum, but without a concrete call to action. That was his point: what are you going to _do_? I work on a solution to this particular problem every day. I don't just write on the internet about it. Put up or shut up.

My "solution" is to wake people up to the fact that we should not have rulers at all. That's the only way to achieve a non-nightmarish future in the long term. People see tyranny creeping up all over the West, for example, but it doesn't occur to them that instead of asking our rulers to please not oppress us, we should stop believing in their authority altogether. You have your activism, and I have mine.

What are some historical examples of "waking" people up to a "fact?"

I'm not so sure lack of belief is enough to dissipate authority. As the old saying goes, you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you. Within my lifetime, the surest way to invite a tiny war into your life is act as if political and/or legal authority doesn't exist. Hell, just implying that authority should change was enough to get projectiles and tear gas loosed in Ferguson MO.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#134

Post by scdoshi »

kimburgess wrote: post #96

For those looking for a modern TV that doesn't have the 'smart' feature set have a look into into commercial grade panels. They are manufactured for digital signage and usage in meeting room / corporate environments. Generally they will not come with a on-board tuner but for those who can stand free to air programming this can be added with an external tuner for < $100.

Interesting idea. Any recommendations?

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#135

Post by walterbell »

xnull2guest wrote: post #116
tedks wrote: post #47

We need a Butlerian Jihad against surveillance. You know what will never stop this? Posts on hacker news. Letters to your congressman (LG can donate a fuqton more to his re-election campaign than you can). Voting with your dollar (people who know what a privacy policy is are few and far between). You know what will? Taking these TVs into the street, smashing and burning them. Mobs storming Best Buy and smashing the s…

Posting to Hacker News does do something though. Not in isolation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic) There's something very powerful when I know what you think, and then you know that I know what you think. When mass understanding foments, common knowledge kicks in and there will be (it's already in the works) a sort of large scale adknowledgement that this is the will of not only us as individua…

Let's not forget that if you're a hacker news reader who works for a consumer electronics manufacturer, you have an opportunity to come up with creative technological solutions that are privacy preserving, opt-in, respectful of home boundaries and good for business. There is no technical reason why good for business must mean bad for consumer.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#136

Post by rsync »

bruce511 wrote: post #19

I'm probably not normal, but frankly I would just leave it unplugged from the Internet. At the end of the day my current tv does what I need to do (ie act as a big monitor) without an internet connection. Given the number of devices already floating around here for browsing the web, I don't really need my tv to do that. For streaming I have Chromecast or whatever. I get that tv makers want to sell me something, but t…

Why not take it a step further and only buy monitors ?

None of my tvs have anything but video inputs.

I use dell monitors, and for my large screens, NEC commercial displays. They are as dumb as dumb can be.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#137

Post by diminoten »

rqebmm wrote: post #109
diminoten wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't understand why I'm not allowed to give away my privacy for convenience, in your eyes. I think you'd be surprised at a) how many people realize they're having their data collected and b) how few people care. Is it a risk? Yes. So is driving a car, but I'm not willing to put up with the inconvenience of not being able to drive somewhere.

This is true, but there's a bigger problem than the mere fact that a lot of data is being collected. It's how transparent companies are about the data that's collected, along with how long it's stored and who has access to it. One might be fine with having their TV scan their face, but does that mean they're okay with that scan being transported to someone else's servers? Who now owns that information? Can the manufa…

I think the readers of this website vastly underestimate how much the average person understands, and vastly overestimate how much the average person values their privacy.

It's starting to get annoying, the folks who want to start a "privacy revolution" even when no one's asking them to.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#138

Post by diminoten »

me_again wrote: post #123
diminoten wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't understand why I'm not allowed to give away my privacy for convenience, in your eyes. I think you'd be surprised at a) how many people realize they're having their data collected and b) how few people care. Is it a risk? Yes. So is driving a car, but I'm not willing to put up with the inconvenience of not being able to drive somewhere.

There may be a slightly-strained analogy to be made here with vaccinations and herd immunity. Just as refusing vaccinations makes others in more danger of contracting infections, willfully allowing yourself to be surveilled makes it more difficult for others to avoid surveillance. Anyway, are you saying that you personally have no problem with a TV that listens to you, or that you don't like it but other people might…

Who cares what I personally have a problem with? Who I am doesn't matter.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#140

Post by balls187 »

tmuir wrote: post #103
bruce511 wrote: post #19

I'm probably not normal, but frankly I would just leave it unplugged from the Internet. At the end of the day my current tv does what I need to do (ie act as a big monitor) without an internet connection. Given the number of devices already floating around here for browsing the web, I don't really need my tv to do that. For streaming I have Chromecast or whatever. I get that tv makers want to sell me something, but t…

I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services. I suppose the economics aren't as straightforward, but I'm of the opinion that Chromecast, Roku, AppleTV, etc are the next layer of crippleware. A small form factor Windows box or a Ma…

> I can't believe that people buy integrated media players with their TVs. They are usually multiple hundreds of dollars on top of the base TV model price, have terrible interfaces, and are crippleware, using apps with very few services.

While I agree that the "media" capabilities of so-called smart tv's suck, it isn't necessarily a conscious decision of the purchaser.

TV's typically fall into various tiers:

Basic Advanced Premium

The Media/App capabilities are usually bundled into the higher tiers, along with other feature upgrades (including size). Eventually as manufacturers find new things to charge money for, what were premium features become standard features on all sets.

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