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I’m Terrified of My New TV

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Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#111

Post by authatheist »

sounds wrote: post #105
authatheist wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He already pointed out that voting or writing to "your" representatives doesn't work, but ypu're still calling for some sort of democratic solution. Please stop.

Actually it's interesting to watch you take the contrary position on an internet forum, but without a concrete call to action. That was his point: what are you going to _do_? I work on a solution to this particular problem every day. I don't just write on the internet about it. Put up or shut up.

My "solution" is to wake people up to the fact that we should not have rulers at all. That's the only way to achieve a non-nightmarish future in the long term.

People see tyranny creeping up all over the West, for example, but it doesn't occur to them that instead of asking our rulers to please not oppress us, we should stop believing in their authority altogether.

You have your activism, and I have mine.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#112

Post by smilefreak »

click170 wrote: post #25

The only reason I feel comfortable connecting things like consumer network-connected cameras, TVs, Bluray players, game consoles, or anything else "Internet Ready" to my network is because I perform outbound filtering, and it's a big eye-opener to see first-hand what these devices are trying to connect to. Luckily most things use HTTP so you can actually filter based on the URL it's trying to access. For example, per…

Thanks for the useful list. The only problem with these things is that they require some time, effort and expertise to set up, which the average citizen may not have. I understand you are just being pragmatic, but we definitely need to work towards solutions, which works for more than the educated tech folk.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#113

Post by cclements »

You know, reading this and some of the comments, especially about run-away authority with the “cops making stops to take money” make me think. I recoil as I’m sure many do about the increasing ubiquity of potential surveillance technology such as this. I think about the slippery slopes that we have evidence of (see: patriot act). But then another part of me thinks back to the “dirty cop” comment. It seems like cops carrying cameras is a strong mitigation to such behavior. The counter argument that such recordings might “going missing” when convenient for the officer comes up then. The sentiment I read often is the solution to that problem is citizens with cameras as well. And that brought me back to the notion of “ubiquity” again. If and when these things are everywhere, then they aren’t just in “normal citizen’s” homes, they are in NSA agent’s homes too, uploading details to the same manufacturer’s servers, carrying the same vulnerabilities. Of course, there are loopholes and restrictions authorities can implement, but can they get them all? A good chunk of my job is penetration testing, and my experience definitely makes me think not.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#114

Post by tempestn »

spiritplumber wrote: post #91
tempestn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find Netflix and YouTube built into the TV extremely useful. Also the fact that it has a half-decent DLNA client (which I connect to Plex on my home server), and can accept screencasting from my phone. I considered building a HTPC, but realized these features cover 99% of what I would use it for, and for the rest I can just use a laptop.

I've had all these features for years thanks to a netbook with a busted battery and a projector I got off some business or other closing up shop. The netbook runs linux mint and runs what I wants it to, and no more. This stuff doesn't need a butlerian jihad, it needs a DIY surge.

Certainly I could hook up a netbook or raspberry pi or whatever to my tv and get this stuff, after some amount of configuration and likely some amount of debugging now and then. And indeed I've gone that route in the past. But when the TV does it all for you, it's hard to argue that that isn't more convenient.

Of course, one could certainly rationally choose to forgo that convenience in favour of increased privacy. I'm just saying the smart features aren't worthless.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#115

Post by girvo »

api wrote: post #22
sean_grant wrote: post #14

Something I've noticed about this however is most tech-literate people who actually care about their privacy tend to leave the wireless disconnected and simply attach the TV to their HTPC device which is from there connected to the internet. Disconnecting it from the internet and possibly even sabotaging the wifi module will ensure that prying eyes will not have access to your information.

It's a two tier world that's coming. Either you know your gear inside and out, or your gear knows you inside and out.

I'd argue that we already live in that world.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#116

Post by xnull2guest »

tedks wrote: post #47

We need a Butlerian Jihad against surveillance. You know what will never stop this? Posts on hacker news. Letters to your congressman (LG can donate a fuqton more to his re-election campaign than you can). Voting with your dollar (people who know what a privacy policy is are few and far between). You know what will? Taking these TVs into the street, smashing and burning them. Mobs storming Best Buy and smashing the s…

Posting to Hacker News does do something though. Not in isolation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)

There's something very powerful when I know what you think, and then you know that I know what you think. When mass understanding foments, common knowledge kicks in and there will be (it's already in the works) a sort of large scale adknowledgement that this is the will of not only us as individuals, but also us as masses.

[I will leave my usually blurb about documented programs in the US and elsewhere that specifically target and derail the forming of such community consensus and on the flip side manipulate media to create desirable consensus.]

Posts on Hacker News will only go so far, but as a community that makes recommendations and gives technical advice and knowledge to the broader community - and as patriots and democratic citizens - we can (and I do) discuss these issues without bashfulness to everyone we are close with.

People care. Old people care and young people care. Democrats, Republicans, Centrists, and Populists care. Religious people care. So do atheists.

Information is key and the media has a really poor record - even (especially) with the handling of the Snowden disclosures. The EFF and ACLU can only bring so many cases to court. _We_ need to be the reliable source of information - for those who look to us for technical advice and information.

And we need to demand an option during elections. This next (national) election is going to be another 'security year'. Screw that. Neither Ebola nor ISIS pose a credible threat to the United States. The real issues are class issues, democratic issues, police state issues, social issues, etc.

Your vote doesn't count for a whole lot. But all of our voices (for the most part) do. Man, it's depressing I had to qualify that... Anyway - posting to HN absolutely contributes. It just isn't the only place you should have your voice heard.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#117

Post by mytochar »

51Cards wrote: post #48
lurchpop wrote: post #24

Went through this recently at Best Buy. The salesperson said by next year they may no longer carry any "dumb" tvs. Currently, those options are almost gone. I didn't see any dumb tvs over 40" and there were no 4Ks without "smart" features. I plan on just blocking it in my router, but who knows if the TV scans around for open hotspots. If I were a "smart" developer Id store everything locally if offline, then dump to…

Simple solution is just don't log it into your WiFi.

Or plug it in to a dumb network so it thinks it's connected and just never succeeds, or log everything that it saves about you, so it thinks it's connected AND is sending traffic, but doesn't get anywhere. There's plenty of options

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#118

Post by trhway »

authatheist wrote: post #99
jsaxton86 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think destroying technology and flipping cop cars is going to end the surveillance state? While an interesting thought experiment, it seems unlikely. If anything, it would give the pro-surveillance lobby enough political capital to further reduce whatever legal privacy protection we already have.

There is no "privacy protection". The organization that supposedly protects our privacy is the exact same one we need protection from. It's like a bunch of sheep trusting that wolves will protect them from getting eaten by wolves.

but if the wolves are smart a bit, the sheep can trust that the wolves would eat them in moderation and in orderly fashion as to avoid starving themselves when all the sheep are suddenly eaten.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#119

Post by oldmanjay »

authatheist wrote: post #111
sounds wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's interesting to watch you take the contrary position on an internet forum, but without a concrete call to action. That was his point: what are you going to _do_? I work on a solution to this particular problem every day. I don't just write on the internet about it. Put up or shut up.

My "solution" is to wake people up to the fact that we should not have rulers at all. That's the only way to achieve a non-nightmarish future in the long term. People see tyranny creeping up all over the West, for example, but it doesn't occur to them that instead of asking our rulers to please not oppress us, we should stop believing in their authority altogether. You have your activism, and I have mine.

solutions that ignore the fundamentals of human nature are masturbation.

Re: I’m Terrified of My New TV

#120

Post by r0h1n »

The solution to this lies in educating & incentivizing the vast majority of lay consumers who either (a) don't know what their devices are up to, or (b) don't care.

But looking at the way people buy ACs and refrigerators, I think a "privacy rating" of some kind might work. So a "smart TV" that monitors & reports everything you do ought to get a 1-star while another that zealously guards your privacy and uses explicit opt-ins may get 4- or 5-stars.

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