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Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

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Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#41

I have a question: How do people even have real counteroffers? Do you apply for multiple jobs and two or more happen to make you an offer? How do you manage to get the times to line up so perfectly?

There are a couple ways to do this. The easiest is to work with a good recruiting company. Lots of them suck but if you can find a good one it's worth it. Ask people you know for recommendations. If you find a good recruiter they will be familiar with how long each company takes so they can do things like have you start interviewing at places that take longer first. Essentially, they'll handle most of the timing issues for you. Having multiple offers puts you in a stronger negotiating position and they usually get paid a percentage of your starting salary so they want you to do well.

If you're doing it on your own the key is to apply to several places and communicate a lot with each company's internal recruiters. When you start interviewing ask what the whole process is and what the usual timeline is for each step. After each step send a brief thank you message. If they are slower getting back to you on the next step than you expected send a quick message to check on when you can expect to hear from them. As you're going through the process at various companies some will progress faster than others. Make sure that the slower ones are aware you're further along in interviews at other companies so they can catch up. When faster companies propose dates for the next step choose something in the longer end of the range to slow things down. Once you have your first offer inform the other companies you're interested in that you have an offer and they need to start wrapping things up one way or the other.

Most companies can be flexible about their timelines. Even places that are known for long application processes can be significantly sped up if they know you're on a deadline.

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#42
So what if they had told they had someone who would do the job for 60K and so you should feel lucky?

Or what if they had told you "Congratulations! you are moving on to bigger and better things. Have your desk cleaned out within half an hour"?

Sometimes bluffs work, sometimes they don't.

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#43

I am going to go out on a limb and say that fake anything is a bullshit way of doing business. In a small way, you probably have made our corner of the world a worse place to be in. Why not just ask for 260K? To lie in order to get it may seem like the only way to guarantee a realization of what you are worth, but this fosters a business climate that you ultimately may not want to live in. Companies may feel the need…

Like you said, all the negative things you feared would come to pass have, in fact, already come to pass. Companies regularly hide information, mislead everyone they're legally allowed to, and outright lie. And no one is surprised.

No one in business, any business, at any level pays for goods and services what they think they are worth. They pay the minimum that they think will be accepted.

The idea that someone on the opposite side of the negotiating table has your best interests at heart and is going to be as generous as they can with you is naive. Occasionally it happens, but it's not probable and not something anyone should rely on. And this holds whether we're discussing purchaser-supplier, founder-vc, employee-employer, or customer-seller.

This is not to say that the people opposite the table are bad people, and once the terms of the relationship have been agreed upon, they will often go above and beyond to help you out. But everyone will negotiate in their self-interest first.

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#45
post #15

Why feel guilty? If they are willing to pay that much, then you are worth that much to them. I see it as the opposite, they were willing to pay you less than what they see as your potential value. For their own benefit.

How can one not feel guilty when lying?

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#47
post #44

It's not nice to lie. There is nothing wrong in trying to get the best package possible. You just should not be doing it with lying.

The company was capable/willing to pay 50% more, but in first instance did not. Negotiation tactics, unfairness and manipulation, lies. It's what you should come to expect from companies, especially large ones. On the company side of the table is someone in charge of making sure the company spends as little money as possible on him. I think he did a great job getting the most out of it. He deserves it, for thinking it through. Most people aren't that great at serving their own interest and getting what they deserve in negotiations like that.

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#48
post #45
post #15

Why feel guilty? If they are willing to pay that much, then you are worth that much to them. I see it as the opposite, they were willing to pay you less than what they see as your potential value. For their own benefit.

How can one not feel guilty when lying?

That is the intriguing question in this type of situation.

Is it okay to lie to someone that's taking advantage of you?

Is it okay to lie if you and your family benefits with no real harm done to the second party?

Is it okay to lie in response to a lie?

I guess the real self-judgement has to be based on whether one knew the nefarious behavior of the other party beforehand or not. It's a tough one.

But I understand your point, I often wonder if law enforcement officers ever feel guilt over the fact they can, and do, outright lie as part of their jobs.

Re: Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer

#50

Can I ask you what is your job? I'd like to make money like that too.

S/W Engineer. That pay scale is current trend in most good IT companies. Most of my friends in similar experience/field getting this, and I asked for that range too based on current trend.
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