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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#621

Post by arnarbi »

sysk wrote: post #494
arnarbi wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of Christians don't take the Bible as the literal word of God. Several Christian churches have no problem with blessing the marriage of gay couples. A Christian is just someone who believes in Jesus Christ as a messiah. You are referring to something much more specific.

Do you mean millions of Christians don't take the Bible as the word of god? Because "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death" (Leviticus 20:13) doesn't seem to leave the place for a non-literal interpretation which would not condemn gay sex (without some serious mind bending).

Yes, erase the word "literal" from my comment and I still stand by it.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#622

Post by mikestew »

goatforce5 wrote: post #240
flexie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone except me, apparently :-)

You subscription to Out magazine must have lapsed. He was their #1 most powerful gay man or woman in American last year: http://www.out.com/out-exclusives/power-50/2013/04/10/power-... I think it was one of those things where everyone knew it, but no one talked about it because it just wasn't that big a deal.

As a man who is straighter than most measuring rulers, you'll forgive me if I missed that issue. :-) Myself, I had heard murmuring, but I never cared enough to confirm. Just kind of "meh, ya gotta figure there's at least one Fortune 500 CEO who's gay. Now to the issue at hand: how's my AAPL stock doing?"

Now, I'm not saying that isn't an important announcement. I have to admit that even Mr. Straighter-than-Straight over here found his eyes kind of welling up while reading Tim's words. Powerful stuff, and a great example for those coming of age while dealing with who they are. But as a person whose portfolio is weighted way too heavily in AAPL, and an owner of lots of stuff with apples on them, I no more care about who Tim Cook shares his bed with than I do about what sports team he favors. That's his own business, and doesn't affect me in the slightest.

In summary, not everyone knew it if only because some of us don't care enough one way or the other to find out.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#623

Post by lclarkmichalek »

downandout wrote: post #608
smtddr wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I don't believe in the cause that Eich donated to. But taking away someone's job over a political donation is preposterous and disturbing. Let's keep in mind nobody legally kicked him out. He left because he couldn't deal with the consequences of his actions. The law protects your free speech, but does not protect you from the consequences of it. http://xkcd.com/1357/ Also, let's not forget how nasty the whole prop…

He was forced out, as everyone is well aware. You are advocating for a society where political intimidation is acceptable. There are many examples of such countries around the world. None have worked out well.

Wasn't most of the criticism due to Mozilla having policies that seemed to directly contradict the views his donation implied? I have no problem with the Koch brothers donating to climate change deniers, but I can see why that same action, if performed by, say, the President of Greenpeace, might make their position untenable.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#624

Post by mwfunk »

alexbecker wrote: post #472
millstone wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they are! http://fortune.com/worlds-most-admired-companies/

Admired =/= admirable. The latter means deserving of admiration.

If you admire someone, then by definition you consider them admirable. So, lots and lots of people consider them admirable. You may not, but that doesn't mean that other people can't have different opinions. It also doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right or vice versa, since we're all unreliable narrators of the world around us.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#625

Post by tjradcliffe »

jzymbaluk wrote: post #383
dwild wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

>that's sad that we're still at this point That said, public opinion is changing very rapidly. XKCD 1431 ( http://xkcd.com/1431/ ) offers an interesting visualization and comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage. According to XKCD's source, interracial marriage didn't reach majority approval until 1995, while gay marriage already reached majority approval in 2011. Now obviously this rift could be the…

Gay marriage isn't necessarily a great proxy for general approval (likely neither is inter-racial marriage.) I live in a very liberal city in a country where gay marriage has been legal for a decade and has widespread approval, and still encounter a surprising amount of anti-gay prejudice. At least is surprises me, so maybe I'm kind of stupid.

So while the rapid change of opinion on gay marriage in the US is great, it is still I think a generational shift to get to the point where gay people won't have a greater than 10% chance that any random person they meet won't be deeply prejudiced against them.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#626

Post by danielweber »

thenmar wrote: post #372
angersock wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Brendan Eich donated money with the sole goal of denying equal rights to people based on their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but I think there is something wrong with that. And I suspect you would too if it were you whose rights were being taken away. Edit: Eich supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_ for violating the Equal Protection Clause. Yes, his support w…

supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_

What does this have to do with anything? Lots of people supported things that later get ruled unconstitutional.

Using "constitutional" as a synonym for "good" is a bad idea.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#627

Post by [deleted] »

science636 wrote: post #361
GuiA wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you will possibly be downvoted, but not because your opinion dissents with the majority. There are plenty of dissenting opinions on HN who get upvoted to the top, as long as they're well argued and informed. You will be downvoted because your comment has no substance to it. The only claim you make is "we know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society", and it isn't backed up by any meaningful conversa…

Male-male homosexual intercourse significantly increases your chances of contracting HIV/AIDS. Is that destructive?

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#628

Post by hnal943 »

jackmaney wrote: post #473
angersock wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Eich didn't just "have an unpopular opinion", he actively contributed against civil rights for LGBT people. He is part of a dying breed, and he cannot possibly fade into obscurity quickly enough.

He held the same position that Obama did at the time.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#629

Post by dreamweapon »

gfodor wrote: post #447
dwild wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion but it's wrong to hurt other people based on an opinion (in this case he hurt them by limiting their right).

Donating money to support a campaign on a proposition supported by 52% of voters is not 'hurting people', and saying so is hyperbolic and ridiculous. The reality is that the gay rights movement did not have the unprecedented swiftness it did by alienating those who feel differently about homosexuality. It traditionally has been a movement predicated on the idea that people who didn't support gay rights could be conve…

Donating money to support a campaign on a proposition supported by 52% of voters is not 'hurting people', and saying so is hyperbolic and ridiculous.

(1) The fact that Prop 8 won in the polls is irrelevant to the question of whether it was hurtful or not. To say (in effect; not quoting you directly) that "if a ballot measure passes, it must be harmless" is kind of like saying that there's nothing wrong with supporting, say, a racist demagog because after all, their rallies were always attended by thronging, jubilant crowds.

(2) What got Eich fired (or pushed into resigning, whatever) was not so much that he donated to a group supporting Prop 8 (by itself), but rather the bigoted TV ads ran by that group (which Eich apparently never distanced himself from). That was really the "clincher" that rallied people against him.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#630

Post by XJOKOLAT »

srean wrote: post #536
avinassh wrote: post #475

Excellent news. I am from India where being gay is a crime in this country. Leaders of this country believe that being gay is a disease and it can be 'cured'[0]. According to Indian Penal Code 377[1], if you are gay you can be imprisoned for life. I had a friend and two years ago he committed suicide because he was gay. In India it's not easy to be gay. Parents and societal pressures can make anyones life living hell…

While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the politician linked by the parent comment you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is frowned upon only by muslim politicians, you couldnt be more wrong. India is an incredibly high variance country. In some metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissi…

Great comment.
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